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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herobizkit" data-source="post: 6965999" data-attributes="member: 36150">Speaking for my own experience with 4e:4e had its own type of Bounded Accuracy hard-coded into its leveling system.  Assuming "core only" (ie no Dragon Magazine) Feats and Classes, it seemed to me that the 'monster math' always increased at a fixed rate in relation to the PC's math.  No matter how much I tried to increase the capabilities of my character, the math never quite caught up and any non-minion fights were a slog.  When the Monster Manual introduced their 'New Math', the basic solution was to lower monster HP and up their damage by half.  This made fights a little shorter, but the 'whiff factor' remained.4e Complex skill checks were ridiculous.  Not only did they offer the same pass/fail as 5e's skill system, varying target numbers (depending on how the challenge was designed) meant that players weren't doing anything but trying to 'beat the math' in some kind of mini-game.  It felt like [Press A to Arcana] to me.To that end, 4e does not model any kind of a realistic campaign world at all.  I find it's far more suited to a Superheroes-style game.   My immersion, if you will, was constantly broken any time a 4e mechanic prevented me from doing even a simple task. For me, Essentials FIXED a lot of 4e's base design.  E-classes/feats etc worked well in tandem with the standard game and shored up a lot of 'feat taxes' that were just awful.  But then, you get the glut of mostly unnecessary/inferior feats and you start tumbling back into 3/P's feat tax territory.</blockquote>

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