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A 3E/4E powergamer DMs Storm King's Thunder
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6966483" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>OK.</p><p></p><p>It was a rhetorical question, no need to dig yourself deeper.</p><p></p><p>No more than having any other edition as your favorite. Most D&Ders /don't/ have a strong past-edition preference (according to WotC's surveys, anyway), but those that do, regardless of the edition, are still in the target audience of 5e, and don't deserve to be shouted down...</p><p></p><p>(... to a point, anyway, I'll join you in questioning the right to complain once someone has actually reverted to a past edition or moved on to another system entirely and is no longer playing 5e at all...)</p><p></p><p>Cries for help aren't always phrased as polite requests for such. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>You very clearly don't always need to call for a roll as a DM. You can narrate success/failure OR call for a check. One of the things I like about 5e, that. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Can't imagine what makes you think that. You do hit (and fail saves) more often in 5e, using typical characters, at any level. But it's 60-70% vs ~50%, hitting 1 more time in 5 or 10 isn't a big difference when combats rarely gets to 5, let alone 10, rounds. More to the point, that's not swinginess. Swinginess is easy victory or TPK based on a few rolls, and it's inevitable when you tune for fast combat. Re-tuning - hps/damage, not to-hit/AC/saves - for longer combats would do more to address the issue.</p><p></p><p>Not a bad idea in any d20 edition, really. </p><p></p><p>Nod, I was one of them, and I appreciate it.</p><p></p><p>There's some hopeful signs here and there. The Knight in the new UA article, for instance (if not the sadly predictable h4ter response to it) shows a willingness to improve support for styles first enabled by 4e, however slowly, and however far behind traditional styles that may be. It's easy (and more nearly justified) to nerdrage 'too little too late' like it's an edition war II, but it's no more constructive than it was the first time.</p><p></p><p>That sounds like a red flag for some personal reflection, I'm sorry to have to say. At bottom, D&D has always used a d20 - linear probability, pass/fail result - even if, since 3.0, it's used it almost exclusively for resolution. The difference you're feeling may be more about feeling than difference.</p><p></p><p>From the DM side of the screen, that's a major motivation. D&D is the flagship of the hobby, not only are you more likely to get players when you hang out a current-ed D&D shingle, it's also the primary point of entry for any new players, so running D&D and running it /well/ is a very real way to help the hobby grow.</p><p></p><p>On the workload side, yes 5e is more work, up-front, than 4e (also less & less frustrating than 3e, IMHO), and requires you be more on the ball while running, too. That's the price of empowerment, but, for that price, you can take charge of it from behind the screen, and, while it's some work, it's not a lot /more/ work. You need to design or tweak encounters and rule on task resolution, anyway, doing so to support a given style (more engaging/less swingy, it seems, in your case) isn't a great deal more/less work than another.</p><p></p><p>From the player side, I can understand that. I don't often approach 5e from that side (not for that reason, but simply because there's nothing much in the way of new/appealing player options, for me - jaded 36 year veteran of the hobby that I am), though. I was hoping you'd see the potential I've found in running the game, though. </p><p></p><p>I'd urge you not to give up on it yet, try to step back and think about the things that are bothering you, and to look for solutions that you can implement on the DM side of the screen, without impacting the player experience (or impacting it positively, for that matter).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6966483, member: 996"] OK. It was a rhetorical question, no need to dig yourself deeper. No more than having any other edition as your favorite. Most D&Ders /don't/ have a strong past-edition preference (according to WotC's surveys, anyway), but those that do, regardless of the edition, are still in the target audience of 5e, and don't deserve to be shouted down... (... to a point, anyway, I'll join you in questioning the right to complain once someone has actually reverted to a past edition or moved on to another system entirely and is no longer playing 5e at all...) Cries for help aren't always phrased as polite requests for such. ;) You very clearly don't always need to call for a roll as a DM. You can narrate success/failure OR call for a check. One of the things I like about 5e, that. :) Can't imagine what makes you think that. You do hit (and fail saves) more often in 5e, using typical characters, at any level. But it's 60-70% vs ~50%, hitting 1 more time in 5 or 10 isn't a big difference when combats rarely gets to 5, let alone 10, rounds. More to the point, that's not swinginess. Swinginess is easy victory or TPK based on a few rolls, and it's inevitable when you tune for fast combat. Re-tuning - hps/damage, not to-hit/AC/saves - for longer combats would do more to address the issue. Not a bad idea in any d20 edition, really. Nod, I was one of them, and I appreciate it. There's some hopeful signs here and there. The Knight in the new UA article, for instance (if not the sadly predictable h4ter response to it) shows a willingness to improve support for styles first enabled by 4e, however slowly, and however far behind traditional styles that may be. It's easy (and more nearly justified) to nerdrage 'too little too late' like it's an edition war II, but it's no more constructive than it was the first time. That sounds like a red flag for some personal reflection, I'm sorry to have to say. At bottom, D&D has always used a d20 - linear probability, pass/fail result - even if, since 3.0, it's used it almost exclusively for resolution. The difference you're feeling may be more about feeling than difference. From the DM side of the screen, that's a major motivation. D&D is the flagship of the hobby, not only are you more likely to get players when you hang out a current-ed D&D shingle, it's also the primary point of entry for any new players, so running D&D and running it /well/ is a very real way to help the hobby grow. On the workload side, yes 5e is more work, up-front, than 4e (also less & less frustrating than 3e, IMHO), and requires you be more on the ball while running, too. That's the price of empowerment, but, for that price, you can take charge of it from behind the screen, and, while it's some work, it's not a lot /more/ work. You need to design or tweak encounters and rule on task resolution, anyway, doing so to support a given style (more engaging/less swingy, it seems, in your case) isn't a great deal more/less work than another. From the player side, I can understand that. I don't often approach 5e from that side (not for that reason, but simply because there's nothing much in the way of new/appealing player options, for me - jaded 36 year veteran of the hobby that I am), though. I was hoping you'd see the potential I've found in running the game, though. I'd urge you not to give up on it yet, try to step back and think about the things that are bothering you, and to look for solutions that you can implement on the DM side of the screen, without impacting the player experience (or impacting it positively, for that matter). [/QUOTE]
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