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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6966642" data-attributes="member: 37579">Not really...5e and 4e have the same PC attack bonuses at level 1 for warriors: 2 + ability + d20. The last three editions have gone by the same rough array for point buy stats used for the math, with a 15 as the assumed stat. Pre-racial bonuses, for a 16 on your primary to-hit. So that's 2+ 3+d20. However, the DMG of 4e puts the AC of monsters at 14+level, for a minimum of 15 vs that +5. Which makes sense, as most of 4e's math comes down to 10+ succeeds.Meanwhile the 5e DM puts the same monsters at AC 13. So you have a 55% change of hitting that level 1 kobold, orc, and goblin in 4e but a 65% chance in 5e. And one hit is more effective in 5e, as monsters aren't expected to take 5 hits to defeat. (I'm sure you're about to point out 4e monsters have lower FRW defenses as well. But the PCs have a related attack bonus that is equally lower, lacking the weapon proficiency bonus. And while one defense is typically lower, another is generally higher, for an average of that 10+ again.) 3e is harder to compare since there's no straight table of AC expected by CR. However, monster AC numbers are close to their 4e counterparts (15s) but attack bonuses are lower, since warriors only get a +1 instead of a +2, and classes like rogues and monks (and rangers in 3.5e) get a +0.In Pathfinder there is a chart that puts the expected AC of Challenge 1 creatures at 12. Which means warriors are as effective as in 5e, but other classes are not. However... in practice, few CR1 monsters in the book actually conform to that number. So while accuracy *should* be comparable, it actually play it is not. You flat out hit more often in 5e than in 4e and 3e. By the math anyway... Unlike 4e (and like 3e) individual monsters don't conform. So while the kobold and orc are right where you'd expect, the goblin is a little higher. Jerk gobos. This goes right out the window with skills. In 5e, skills and attacks effectively use the same math. In 3e/PF, skills gain a +3 bonus over attacks and bonuses from feats, races, spells, and magic items are given out like candy. (To say nothing of synergy bonuses in 3.5e. I had a level 10 gnome bard in Living Greyhawk that had something like 6 ranks in Perform, but a +25 bonus.) The initial bonus is higher in 4e and skill bonuses from feats and magic items were still one of the few bonuses to really be freely available. Plus power bonuses. In both cases, an expert at a skill really stopped needing to roll. Especially if it's a challenge anyone in the party also wants to attempt.</blockquote>

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