A boardgamey RPG

Asmor

First Post
I'll try to be brief in explaining my motivations here. Combat in most RPGs is its own game, it's own subsystem distinct from the game as a whole. Sometimes it's even the focus of the entire system, as often seems to be the case with D&D.

But most other things usually come down to a single die roll, or some slightly glorified set of die rolls (e.g. skill challenges).

So I was thinking... what if there were an RPG where most things were resolved with their own minigames.

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Ideally, these minigames should meet the following criteria.

1. Fast to set up. This should be something which, with appropriate preparation, is quick and easy to pull out at a moment's notice.

2. Fast and easy to play. Someone should be able to learn a minigame they've never played before very, very quickly, and be able to resolve it just as quickly. This is also important because no matter how many different minigames there are, they will get repetitive fairly quickly and so you don't want the process to be involved.

3. Have a clear victory condition. Going along with this, the game should only be used when there are clear rewards and consequences for victory or defeat. If it's the sort of thing where players can keep trying until they succeed, just let them succeed. As a general rule of thumb, each character should only ever get one single attempt at the minigame for any given challenge.

4. Most importantly, it should be evocative. The whole point of using minigames is to make it feel like you're actually doing whatever it is your character is trying to accomplish. It doesn't need to be deep or strategic or even challenging. It just has to be evocative!

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I've come up with two of them so far. Both of them use a deck of cards, using red cards as successes and black cards as failures.

Searching The GM assigns a difficulty to the search. That's how many failures are in the deck. There is a single success. The cards are shuffled and laid out on the table. The player gets to look at a certain number of cards based on their search skill; they win if they find the success.

Stealth There is a single failure, representing the player, in the deck. There are a number of successes based on the player's stealth skill. The GM draws a number of cards from the deck based on the difficulty of the task. As long as the player's card (the failure) avoids being found-- i.e. if the GM draws only successes-- the player wins.

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So that's what I've got so far. Besides decks of cards, I'm also interesting in using chess boards and pieces, dice, and other items that most gamers would have lying around.

I'd like to have minigames for climbing, jumping, swimming, picking locks/deactivating traps, etc, but haven't yet hit on any ideas which meet all of my criteria above.

Actually, I haven't put a whole lot of thought into this at all... I literally just started thinking about it less than an hour ago while trying to go to sleep and decided I'd never be able to get to sleep unless I wrote it down! So... sorry for my sleep-addled ideas.
 

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McTreble

First Post
Don't skill challenges cover this? I mean, certainly you could include cards or other props, but 4e has a system for this kind of thing. Even if you don't play 4e, Skill Challenges could most likely be imported into whatever you're playing.
 

Asmor

First Post
Combat could be changed to a skill challenge just as easily. What makes combat so special that it deserves its own special system?

Skill challanges are fine for what they are (well, okay, not exactly, but this isn't the place to get into my issues with skill challenges), but what they are is not what I'm interested in with this idea.
 

Clavis

First Post
Rules Cyclopedia D&D pretty much qualifies. In particular, dominion management and mass combat using the War Machine and Siege Machine are their own mini-games. You could easily play an entire series of games using the War Machine and never make any reference to dungeons, treasure, or even specific player characters.

Yet another reason the RC is so great.
 

While an interesting topic, the methods you outlined are just a diceless alternative to random resolution with the outcome probability determined by a characteristic or skill being tested.

In other words, a clunkier way of rolling a die against a given difficulty.

I do like your idea though. In order for the mini game to actually be more meaningful to participate in the player should get to make a choice or series of choices that influence success or failure. A quick hand of draw poker would serve but it wouldn't be very evocative of the activity. A hand of 5 card stud would only count if there was a wager involved and the degree of success depended on the amount won or lost in the pot.

It could be a very interesting project to develop.
 

Combat in the old Choose Your Own Adventure books was resolved with a sequence of D6 rolls or coin flips. There is no reason why D&D combat couldn't be simpler. I think combat complexity is seen as one of the more fun parts of the game, hence the emphasis.

As for making things a series of minigames...the risk with this is obvious if you look at video games. A fair number of videogames include a variety of minigames that differ dramatically from the main part of the game. Some designers get it right, but others get the difficulty, control system, or just "fun factor" wrong on many of the minigames. Most designers are probably better focusing design and testing on a consistent set of mechanics than they are in trying to come up with a wide variety of different minigames.
 

Ariosto

First Post
I've come up with two of them so far. Both of them use a deck of cards, using red cards as successes and black cards as failures.
Those are not really games in the applicable sense, any more than is a toss of a die. They are just more time-consuming ways to generate a random result!
 

Ariosto

First Post
Kenzer & Company's Aces & Eights is an exemplar of implementing actual mini-games in some variety, from barroom brawls to cattle rustling.

The Classic Traveller, from Game Designers' Workshop, was essentially a collection of mini-games -- starting with character creation! A character could have a whole career, and even get killed, without getting past that preliminary "solitaire game". Some other aspects were not quite games in that literal sense, but were at least a sort of structured amusement and system exploration for the Game Master.
 

Primal

First Post
Many indie RPGs from 'Dogs in the Vineyard' to 'Shadow of Yesterday' and 'Polaris' resolve conflicts in mini-games.
 

The challenge in devising such a system is to create something that makes it more than a mix of "get the best available value in one numeric attribute relevant to the task" and "random chance".

I mean, you can boil down your game system to this. But I think that's not particularly interesting if your major influence on the outcome is set before you even play the game. "Hey, I got a +25 Stealth modifier. I will probably win."

The challenge is to have something: "Okay, I can spend my [GAME RESOURCE] on [OPTION I] or on [OPTION II]. If I succeed at [OPTION I], I get [BENEFIT A]. [BENEFIT A] opens up [OPTION III]. If I succed at [OPTION II], I get [BENEFIT B], which opens up [OPTION IV]. [...]" There must be a series of non-trivial decisions that lead to your success (or to your failure) in every instance of your game.

That's why most roleplaying games have stuff like "actions per time unit" (Standard/Move/Minor; 2 Simple or 1 Complex), hit points, spell points, spell slots, powers. All these are resources the players in the game spend and try to get the best outcomes with it, predicting the enemies use of resources and denying him the best uses for it.

Your card mechanic and the skill value are just the start. Where is the resource you spend, and the resource you risk? Where do I have to thing tactically or strategically?

You might already add a strategic component if you say: "Oh, and every character gets a point that allows him to say: "Reshuffle and draw a new card" over a certain amount of time, and a way to gauge the worth of each individual card drawing session.
The Stealth Challenge is worth n points. Will the challenge that will follow from succeeding the Stealth challenge be worth more or less than that? Will the challenge that will follow from failing the Stealth challenge be worth more or less than that? That's something you might not know, but maybe there are hints. Maybe you don't really count in "points" but what the story goal is and which one you find preferably, if any. Either way, based on this, you have a decision to make - do I spend the reshuffle point now or later. What will yield the biggest benefits?

The random chance and the uncertainity about the future make it a gamble - you can't know for certain what is the best course of actions, but a "good" player will make better guesses, be it from experience or noting subtle clues.
 

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