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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 5020350" data-attributes="member: 710">I think that was not the design goal, which is why I wouldn't write "designed to". Well, there is still some player skill involved, but it's very shallow: "Learn the trick of using your best skill modifier and to aid another". I don't think that was the intention and I think that is ultimiately what makes skill challenges underdeveloped and a design failure. Maybe not the worst imaginable, but clearly not up to the standards the game system achieves in other areas.Yes. If you don't add either a "risk/reward" scheme or attach narrative elements to each check, it is not very exciting. I think everyone that made skill challenges and found them disappointing did probably miss one or both of these features. But are they the reasons we play Roleplaying Games?I don't really know how Ariosto defines it, but I think player skill doesn't have to be skill relevant to the game world. It can be skill in using the game rules. It is a player skill to find ways to get high skill modifiers. I think it just lacks the necessary depth, because you have already played the game part at home, most of the time, or the first time you learned the aid another rule or something like that. I think for a good gaming experience, you want to have decisions during gametime that matter. These can be decisions made within the story, like asking the correct questions to the witness of a crime scene, or the decision to travel by boat instead of following the monster-infested roads. It can also be "rule" decisions, like using Scorching Burst instead of Ice Rays, focusing more on negating the trolls regeneration then on slowing their movement. All this in my eyes are player skill - pick smart choices within the game world and within the game system to achieve your goals. Some games of chance even have allow for "player skill" in this sense. Card games like Poker have this very strongly. For many games of chance the only "Player Skill" might be not to play at all. In a lottery, "smart play" won't necessarily improve your chances much (and you will probably always end up losing more than you will ever win), but if you avoid common numbers, at least on the off-chance you win, you won't have to share your winnings with other people. ---To keep within the card game mechanics. One way might be to give the players a hand of cards on their own. A player can choose to add a card to the deck you draw from to determine success. The card might might be an extra chance for success. If the card itself is drawn, you get another random card back. You might use the symbols or colors of the card to limit when they are applicable, or give them different effects when they are added to the deck or drawn from it. Torg used (custom) cards to great effect in its game mechanics. Most rolls where based on a d20 (reroll and add 10s and 20s, actual value determined by a look-up-table). Cards could be added to gain bonuses or rerolls. Cards where also used to determine initative, round-to-round effects on combat, and to help resolve Torgs equivalent of skill challenges.</blockquote>

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