A Call for Speculation

[Hygric]

Well, as for in an information age society, consider your energy restrictions eliminated. Imagine buying light bulbs that never burn out and cost nothing to run.

Sun-boxes to handle heating and cooking (as stipulated, the effect is variable, so why not a thermostat type arangement?).

The self-enclosed solar panel. Basically what you are looking at with this idea is an infinite clean energy source.

Militarily: sun satelites to illumine 24 hours a day an opposing country, causing drought and sleep deprevation. Focussing elements to have high yield and practical laser weapons.

Aaargh, the ramifications are to many! May as well ask what will be the effect of discovering electricity to someone that lived in the dark ages.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Nope - Light is insufficient to move most farms underground. Plants need light, but they also need space, water and topsoil. Having the ability to create light doesn't imply having the engineering ability to create vast tracts of "land" underground. Engineering-wise, it's probably easier to move the industrial park underground than it is to move the farms.

Untrue. Hydroponics are getting to the point where they are going to be more effective anyway, provided a reliable power source. You don't need vast tracts of land. A high-rise hydroponics building (or a multilevel underground operation) could produce MUCH more food using a tiny fraction of the land. It's not currently cost effective, but if you didn't have to worry about energy costs and interrupted power, it would make sense to convert as much farming as possible to hydroponics. It would be the first time in history that American industry and government joined forced to push tech as quickly as possible.

Plus, government is run by the people who own the industry (regardless of political party affiliation, not slamming any particular group here). They would much rather develop the land and make the taxpayers pick up the cost of developing alternative food sources than pay out of their own pockets to develop underground industry. Not to mention the infrastructure and pollution problems that would entail.

 

[Umbran]

Untrue. Hydroponics are getting to the point where they are going to be more effective anyway, provided a reliable power source. You don't need vast tracts of land.

Funny, I don't see many hydroponic farms out there, we still need huge tracts of land. Hydroponics is expensive even today, and is nowhere near being advanced enough to feed a nation. For anyone with technology lesser than our own, actual fertile dirt is required.

We were asked to talk about what happens to society when we add this one thing. Not if we add this one thing, and a knowledge of hydroponics beyond that of the greatest tinker gnomes

And, even today, this "technology" wouldn't crate a big push for hydroponics. Why? Because the gain isn't great compared to the cost. While you could perhaps grow much more food per square mile, it would cost lots and lots in infrastructure. The capital outlay to build the hydroponic farms would be astronomical, and every singe thing you'd build would require upkeep. Normal farming doesn't call for that capital outlay, and has far fewer constructions to keep up.

Plus, government is run by the people who own the industry

Overgeneralization, as far as RPGs are concerned. There are lots of different governmental forms in games, and only some of them have the government run by the people who own the industry.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Funny, I don't see many hydroponic farms out there, we still need huge tracts of land. Hydroponics is expensive even today, and is nowhere near being advanced enough to feed a nation. For anyone with technology lesser than our own, actual fertile dirt is required.

We were asked to talk about what happens to society when we add this one thing. Not if we add this one thing, and a knowledge of hydroponics beyond that of the greatest tinker gnomes

And, even today, this "technology" wouldn't crate a big push for hydroponics. Why? Because the gain isn't great compared to the cost. While you could perhaps grow much more food per square mile, it would cost lots and lots in infrastructure. The capital outlay to build the hydroponic farms would be astronomical, and every singe thing you'd build would require upkeep. Normal farming doesn't call for that capital outlay, and has far fewer constructions to keep up.

Overgeneralization, as far as RPGs are concerned. There are lots of different governmental forms in games, and only some of them have the government run by the people who own the industry.

Well, he asked for different eras, so I went modern (probably because i was feeling grouchy at the time).
At any rate, the costs inherent to hydroponics mostly stem from energy supply. I could convert my lab into a hydroponic garden for about $50 (and I work with brains, so it's not like I have plant equipment lying around). The problem comes in from needing constant, uninterruptable power. As it stands, if we were using hydroponics, a major blackout would cause a famine. That wouldn't be an issue with this spell of mythusmage's.

The infrastructure would actually be a lot less than it is now. Companies would grow food in one building and package and ship it from next door. The Japanese would jump on this in a heartbeat (especially considering how much more favorable it would make their trade balance). It might take a few years for it to sink into other businessmen that spending $1 billion this year to save you $500 million each year for the next 200 is a viable idea

I think you are under-estimating current tech in a lot of ways.

 

[Number47]

I could see this eventually leading to a world that is increasingly enclosed indoors. If they can get a way to make/purify water, they have no more need to go outside.

 

[Gavin]

Now I'm no botanist, but I did take a class once...

I thought plants required a day/night cycle to grow. If you can't turn that "sun" off you wouldn't be able to use it for farming.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Now I'm no botanist, but I did take a class once...

I thought plants required a day/night cycle to grow. If you can't turn that "sun" off you wouldn't be able to use it for farming.

You occlude it periodically with solar cells and heat sinks so you can convert as much of the energy as possible to electricity to power the circulation systems, building lighting (for areas not covered by the "sun"), etc.

In fact, the best way to do it would be a single source, dampened and directed to the various "agricultural" parts of the building with mirrors, lens, etc (something like the building in Mission Impossible 2). It would be self-sustaining because the equipment would be powered by the excess energy of the fake sun.

 

[mythusmage]

Just to clarify. I didn't say ventilation was better than shade, and I did mention needing to take in liquids. I was just pointing out that if you have no shade, ANY breeze hot or not is better than none.

And my point is, it's a temporary relief, it doesn't last. All too soon the direct sunlight overcomes the subject, and he expires.

Temporary relief. You need to do more for permanent relief.

 

[mythusmage]

Underground Farming

First thing, you find (or make) a large cave room (as they're called among cavers).

Second, you prepare the space. Level it off, smooth the walls. Put in a recess where the "sun" will go. Add a ventilation system and pipes for water and waste.

Third, install the sun.

Fourth, plant the intial crops. Nitrogen fixing plants. Plants capable of breaking down rocks etc. The primitive stuff basically. Precursor plants.

Fifth, you let the soil build up.

Sixth, you plant the food/cash crops.

All the time maintaining the facility, supplying fresh air and water, carting off efflugent and similar grody stuff. Tending to the plants themselves, and making sure the sun goes through a regular cycle of brightening and dimming.

It's doable, but it would take preparation, and be labor intensive. Given enough time you may have to "muck out" the cave room and start over again.

There's also the danger of having pollutants and heavy metals building up. Along with other problems I can't think of right now.

I see this more among the subterranean races; drow, svirfneblin, deurgar. And then only in certain areas of a particular complex. Among the surface races it would be used more for specialty crops, luxury items. Only in arctic regions would it be used to grow common food crops. We tend to do things the easy way, and underground farming would not be easy.

 

[mythusmage]

A True Story for Dragongirl

Back when I was in my early 30s (I'm 48 now) there was a story in the news about two infants. A boy of 6 months and his 4 month old cousin.

The car they were in was stolen. The thief found the babies and dumped them by the side of the road. Out of sight of passing motorists.

The temperature was in the low 70s. There was a steady breeze. Both infants died of heat exhaustion, unable to get out of the Sun.

Ventilation an architect can only dream of, and they died. Of heat exhaustion.

Yes, their temperature regulation wasn't all that hot. But the ventilation was fantastic. Ventilation to... ...I'm not going to go there.

It is rare, but people do die of prolonged exposure to sunlight. Adults as well as small infants. Ventilation is only part of the answer. Unless the sunlight is especially weak, you will need to get out of the Sun before it overwhelms you, and overwhelm you it will.