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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8514680" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I find the problem, here, is that you're arguing against a non-rational feeling with rational facts. It does not matter that the scale at which realism gives way to abstraction is capricious, arbitrary, and potentially ever-changing, even for a singular person. The desire for things to feel like realism remains.On the one hand, you're absolutely right. The roots of the game include Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, with its overt sci-fi elements, or the DM developing entire new classes just to deal with problematic characters (the Cleric being more like a blunt-weapon-using Van Helsing), or players being allowed to play young dragons or depowered balors so long as they accept that they must grow into their power over&nbsp; time.On the other, it would be a lot easier to accept that there was no association between old-school gaming and a strident insistence on traditionalism if...well, actual old-school gamers didn't so frequently speak out against new developments (like dragonborn and tieflings being default races) or so consistently propose Pseudo-Medieval Semi-European Tolkienesque Schizotech Low Fantasy as the appropriate default for the vast majority of gaming. (Tempted to acronym that. PMSETSLF. Schizotech, incidentally, mostly because of the expected range of armors and near-absolute resistance to including firearms; many arms and armors featured in D&amp;D post-date the development of early firearms, but firearms are not Traditional D&amp;D...mostly for old-school folks.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8514680, member: 6790260"] I find the problem, here, is that you're arguing against a non-rational feeling with rational facts. It does not matter that the scale at which realism gives way to abstraction is capricious, arbitrary, and potentially ever-changing, even for a singular person. The desire for things to [I]feel[/I] like realism remains. On the one hand, you're absolutely right. The roots of the game include [I]Expedition to the Barrier Peaks[/I], with its overt sci-fi elements, or the DM developing entire new classes just to deal with problematic characters (the Cleric being more like a blunt-weapon-using Van Helsing), or players being allowed to play young dragons or depowered balors so long as they accept that they must grow into their power over time. On the other, it would be a lot easier to accept that there was no association between old-school gaming and a strident insistence on traditionalism if...well, actual old-school gamers didn't so frequently speak out against new developments (like dragonborn and tieflings being default races) or so consistently propose [I]Pseudo-Medieval Semi-European Tolkienesque Schizotech Low Fantasy[/I] as the appropriate default for the vast majority of gaming. (Tempted to acronym that. PMSETSLF. Schizotech, incidentally, mostly because of the expected range of armors and near-absolute resistance to including firearms; many arms and armors featured in D&D [I]post-date[/I] the development of early firearms, but firearms are not Traditional D&D...[I]mostly[/I] for old-school folks.) [/QUOTE]

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