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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8520923" data-attributes="member: 22779">And, the thing is though, that if ASI's are there to promote &quot;iconic&quot; versions of race/class, we need to actually ask, &quot;Is this still iconic now?&nbsp; And, will it still be iconic ten years from now?&quot;What's iconic about a Dragonborn?&nbsp; We might say melee classes, but, that's because of the ASI's.&nbsp; It wasn't that the dragonborn paladin was iconic, so, they designed the race that way - they MADE that combination iconic, even though it doesn't actually resemble anything iconic from genre fiction.Dwarves and Elves are iconic as fighters and archers/wizards because of Tolkien.&nbsp; Fair enough, I suppose.&nbsp; But, the genre has changed immensely in the past twenty or thirty years.&nbsp; There is more original fantasy fiction from 2000-2021 than was written in the previous century.&nbsp; DOTA and The Witcher are likely just as iconic in many people's minds as Lord of the Rings.&nbsp; Certainly more directly accessible anyway.&nbsp; Or Monster Hunter.&nbsp; Or any number of other properties.But, if we insist on tying race to ASI in order to promote an iconic image of that race in play, then we're promoting a rather singular vision of that race from a very small number of sources.&nbsp; There is some danger in becoming irrelevant if we insist that iconic versions of various races follow from sources that are becoming less and less in the forefront of the genre.I think that it is no surprise that races like Tiefling and Dragonborn, races with virtually no traditional ties in the game, have become two of the most popular races in the game, while races with ties to older properties seem to be falling out of popularity more and more every year.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8520923, member: 22779"] And, the thing is though, that if ASI's are there to promote "iconic" versions of race/class, we need to actually ask, "Is this still iconic now? And, will it still be iconic ten years from now?" What's iconic about a Dragonborn? We might say melee classes, but, that's because of the ASI's. It wasn't that the dragonborn paladin was iconic, so, they designed the race that way - they MADE that combination iconic, even though it doesn't actually resemble anything iconic from genre fiction. Dwarves and Elves are iconic as fighters and archers/wizards because of Tolkien. Fair enough, I suppose. But, the genre has changed immensely in the past twenty or thirty years. There is more original fantasy fiction from 2000-2021 than was written in the previous century. DOTA and The Witcher are likely just as iconic in many people's minds as Lord of the Rings. Certainly more directly accessible anyway. Or Monster Hunter. Or any number of other properties. But, if we insist on tying race to ASI in order to promote an iconic image of that race in play, then we're promoting a rather singular vision of that race from a very small number of sources. There is some danger in becoming irrelevant if we insist that iconic versions of various races follow from sources that are becoming less and less in the forefront of the genre. I think that it is no surprise that races like Tiefling and Dragonborn, races with virtually no traditional ties in the game, have become two of the most popular races in the game, while races with ties to older properties seem to be falling out of popularity more and more every year. [/QUOTE]

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