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<blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 8530857" data-attributes="member: 7023840">I think that this is an accurate, and often overlooked, point. I completely agree with you. Many debates about &quot;simunlationism&quot; (either using the term expressly, or implicitly by saying that something doesn't feel &quot;right&quot; or &quot;real&quot;) are often not about simulationism per se, but are instead discussions about what people really want the RPG to model. In other words, people aren't really arguing about whether the game should have some aspects of simulation, but instead are implicitly arguing about the correct genre to be simulating.That's a little abstract, so to put it in more concrete terms-I think it is a banal and usually accepted point to say that D&amp;D has generally (not for everyone, and not always) gone from a game of heroes to a game of superheroes. In other words, the typical tropes of D&amp;D in the past has had &quot;realism&quot; be that &quot;normal&quot; people acquire greater powers, through magic or magic items, but still operate somewhat akin to our reality. Theme park medievalism. Increasingly over time, people use D&amp;D to model more superheroic characters- characters that are able to do things innately that &quot;normal&quot; people can't do, or that operate in a way that corresponds to genre conventions that are more popular now; characters themselves can bend reality innately (similar to wuxia or anime) without necessarily using overt magic. Both are simulations- they are just simulating different genres. Nevertheless, it is common for some to argue that the first (the theme park medievalism) is &quot;real&quot; or &quot;simulationist&quot; and the second is &quot;wrong&quot; or &quot;doesn't feel right.&quot;I would say that 5e kind of splits the difference, and still allows both styles of play ... but leans heavily toward simulating the superheroic. It is easier to model (for example) a Trevor Belmont from the animated Castlevania using 5e than it would have been using TSR-era rules. All of this is IMO, ymmv, etc.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Snarf Zagyg, post: 8530857, member: 7023840"] I think that this is an accurate, and often overlooked, point. I completely agree with you. Many debates about "simunlationism" (either using the term expressly, or implicitly by saying that something doesn't feel "right" or "real") are often not about simulationism [I]per se[/I], but are instead discussions about what people really want the RPG to model. In other words, people aren't really arguing about whether the game [I]should[/I] have some aspects of simulation, but instead are implicitly arguing about the correct genre to be simulating. That's a little abstract, so to put it in more concrete terms- I think it is a banal and usually accepted point to say that D&D has [I]generally[/I] (not for everyone, and not always) gone from a game of heroes to a game of superheroes. In other words, the typical tropes of D&D in the past has had "realism" be that "normal" people acquire greater powers, through magic or magic items, but still operate somewhat akin to our reality. Theme park medievalism. Increasingly over time, people use D&D to model more superheroic characters- characters that are able to do things innately that "normal" people can't do, or that operate in a way that corresponds to genre conventions that are more popular now; characters themselves can bend reality innately (similar to wuxia or anime) without necessarily using overt magic. Both are simulations- they are just simulating different genres. Nevertheless, it is common for some to argue that the first (the theme park medievalism) is "real" or "simulationist" and the second is "wrong" or "doesn't feel right." I would say that 5e kind of splits the difference, and still allows both styles of play ... but leans heavily toward simulating the superheroic. It is easier to model (for example) a Trevor Belmont from the animated Castlevania using 5e than it would have been using TSR-era rules. All of this is IMO, ymmv, etc. [/QUOTE]

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