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<blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 2947316" data-attributes="member: 13966"><p>I'm not really disinterested in seeing what you've designed, but from your introduction, I see several things I would disagree with. I"ll very briefly mention a few that stick out as killing any fun I could have expected to have in D&D.</p><p></p><p>A lot of folks don't want to just play "swords and a bit of sorcery on the side," and having so little focus on magic gives the impression that there isn't really going to be anything 'fantastic' about the adventures, campaigns, or locations. Don't see how flying cities, merfolk metropolises at the bottom of the sea, giant gates to abyssal planes spewing forth fiends, dragons belching fire and lightning, legendary swords, flying carpets, rings of invisibility, and stone golems could ever fit into such a place. Let alone how the pitiable 'heroes' of the world could ever stand against such things as dragons and golems and fiends, when a small mob of a few ordinary peasants with smithy hammers and kitchen knives could defeat said 'heroes'.</p><p></p><p>You seem to put more emphasis on number of aggressors than on skill, equipment, and experience. Just doesn't seem very heroic to me, that a few goblins or thieves could overpower and mug/kill a so-called 'hero' while he's out deer-hunting on his own while the rest of the PCs make camp. Regardless of how much more skilled and experienced this 'hero' may be. I somehow rather doubt, from the description, that your system really even gives PC 'heroes' the benefit of heroic luck; it's probably entirely left up to DM fiat to decide if the PCs are favored by fate or just ordinary chumps who are just as likely to die to a surprise crossbow bolt to the chest when sneaky raiders attack, as ordinary-and-unadventurous-and-risk-averse Joe Farmer is.</p><p></p><p>How much do you downplay ranged weapons? An arrow can darned well kill a man if it hits right, and it can hit right from a considerable distance. It'll take a while for Bob Swordsman to reach Bill Archer, while Bill's planting feathered shafts of iron-tipped doom into Bob's stupid chest and neck. In 3E D&D at least, ranged weapons aren't just dismissable; I've seen archery-focused characters take down dragons and experienced warriors alike, without ever getting hit themselves. They can fire an impressive volley of shots each round, with significant damage bonuses, critical multipliers, and threat ranges, though the damage bonuses are admittedly somewhat lower than in melee (for lack of any ranged Power Attack).</p><p></p><p>Just because Joe Shmuck the Roleplayer isn't a genius doesn't mean that he should be stuck playing characters that are only as smart, quick-witted, clever, and good with puzzles as he himself is. Why force players to only RP characters of the same mental capacities, when they are already allowed to RP characters much stronger, tougher, faster, more agile, and more handsome than themselves? May as well force them to have physical character stats appropriate to the player himself or herself, and that's not very fun either.</p><p></p><p>Having some mental/social stats and skills on the character sheet allows for a character to be more capable mentally than the player, just as they can be more capable physically. So what if Joe Shmuck can't think up an immediate solution to a time-sensitive puzzle or other conundrum? If his character is Ran-Kaezor the Sage and Master Engineer to the King of Varduun, he should darned well be able to make an Intelligence check or Knowledge (architecture and engineering) or Knowledge (mathematics) or Knowledge (puzzles and riddles) check to figure something out! And just because Joe Shmuck is no charmer himself, it doesn't mean that his PC can't be a popular and effective politician with the lords and ladies at court. The system should at least support the possibility of such circumstances, IMHO.</p><p></p><p>Surprise in combat should be able to provide a decisive advantage (thus initiative, to an extent). Powerful magic should be available for campaigns that feature it (like Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk or Planescape), but by no means does it have to be world-shaking power. And y'know, the PCs can't very well usurp the kingdom just because they're high-level; the King probably has mid- or high-level protectors in the Royal Guard, and there are bound to be experienced officers in the kingdom's army and the city watch.</p><p></p><p>So, while some of your ideas are in agreement with my own experiences and observations about D&D, I don't think I'd personally be interested in your variant system, because it has some less-than-true assumptions, less-than-heroic focus, and less-than-decent support for different play styles beyond 'gritty swords n' bit o' sorcery', from what I gather. Others may agree, but I'm sure that, like several who have already posted, there are also plenty of folks who <em>love</em> that playstyle.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arkhandus, post: 2947316, member: 13966"] I'm not really disinterested in seeing what you've designed, but from your introduction, I see several things I would disagree with. I"ll very briefly mention a few that stick out as killing any fun I could have expected to have in D&D. A lot of folks don't want to just play "swords and a bit of sorcery on the side," and having so little focus on magic gives the impression that there isn't really going to be anything 'fantastic' about the adventures, campaigns, or locations. Don't see how flying cities, merfolk metropolises at the bottom of the sea, giant gates to abyssal planes spewing forth fiends, dragons belching fire and lightning, legendary swords, flying carpets, rings of invisibility, and stone golems could ever fit into such a place. Let alone how the pitiable 'heroes' of the world could ever stand against such things as dragons and golems and fiends, when a small mob of a few ordinary peasants with smithy hammers and kitchen knives could defeat said 'heroes'. You seem to put more emphasis on number of aggressors than on skill, equipment, and experience. Just doesn't seem very heroic to me, that a few goblins or thieves could overpower and mug/kill a so-called 'hero' while he's out deer-hunting on his own while the rest of the PCs make camp. Regardless of how much more skilled and experienced this 'hero' may be. I somehow rather doubt, from the description, that your system really even gives PC 'heroes' the benefit of heroic luck; it's probably entirely left up to DM fiat to decide if the PCs are favored by fate or just ordinary chumps who are just as likely to die to a surprise crossbow bolt to the chest when sneaky raiders attack, as ordinary-and-unadventurous-and-risk-averse Joe Farmer is. How much do you downplay ranged weapons? An arrow can darned well kill a man if it hits right, and it can hit right from a considerable distance. It'll take a while for Bob Swordsman to reach Bill Archer, while Bill's planting feathered shafts of iron-tipped doom into Bob's stupid chest and neck. In 3E D&D at least, ranged weapons aren't just dismissable; I've seen archery-focused characters take down dragons and experienced warriors alike, without ever getting hit themselves. They can fire an impressive volley of shots each round, with significant damage bonuses, critical multipliers, and threat ranges, though the damage bonuses are admittedly somewhat lower than in melee (for lack of any ranged Power Attack). Just because Joe Shmuck the Roleplayer isn't a genius doesn't mean that he should be stuck playing characters that are only as smart, quick-witted, clever, and good with puzzles as he himself is. Why force players to only RP characters of the same mental capacities, when they are already allowed to RP characters much stronger, tougher, faster, more agile, and more handsome than themselves? May as well force them to have physical character stats appropriate to the player himself or herself, and that's not very fun either. Having some mental/social stats and skills on the character sheet allows for a character to be more capable mentally than the player, just as they can be more capable physically. So what if Joe Shmuck can't think up an immediate solution to a time-sensitive puzzle or other conundrum? If his character is Ran-Kaezor the Sage and Master Engineer to the King of Varduun, he should darned well be able to make an Intelligence check or Knowledge (architecture and engineering) or Knowledge (mathematics) or Knowledge (puzzles and riddles) check to figure something out! And just because Joe Shmuck is no charmer himself, it doesn't mean that his PC can't be a popular and effective politician with the lords and ladies at court. The system should at least support the possibility of such circumstances, IMHO. Surprise in combat should be able to provide a decisive advantage (thus initiative, to an extent). Powerful magic should be available for campaigns that feature it (like Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk or Planescape), but by no means does it have to be world-shaking power. And y'know, the PCs can't very well usurp the kingdom just because they're high-level; the King probably has mid- or high-level protectors in the Royal Guard, and there are bound to be experienced officers in the kingdom's army and the city watch. So, while some of your ideas are in agreement with my own experiences and observations about D&D, I don't think I'd personally be interested in your variant system, because it has some less-than-true assumptions, less-than-heroic focus, and less-than-decent support for different play styles beyond 'gritty swords n' bit o' sorcery', from what I gather. Others may agree, but I'm sure that, like several who have already posted, there are also plenty of folks who [I]love[/I] that playstyle. [/QUOTE]
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