A couple of questions on Bards and Perform

[Kaledor]

Hi all, I'm asking this question for one of my fellowplayers b/c she doesn't log in here often enough to get the answer... Here's the situation:

We have a bard using storytelling to activate her Bardic Inspire Courage.
We know that she needs to spend a standard action each round to maintain concentration (or the ability ends and the effect ends 5 rounds later).

Since it is storytelling, she's still able to carry a weapon in her hands.

Now:

We know she can't take an attack action on her turn without stopping her concentration, but she is still ABLE to attack if she chooses.
SO, does she still threaten squares around her? (since she's able to attack on her turn if she chooses).
Follow-up, were she to take her AoO does she automatically end her concentration on the Performance? (she hasn't used up her standard action, so she *could* spend it later next turn... but does the attack force an auto-stop on the performance).


Next Question,
If she is concentrating on a Performance (as in Inspire Courage) and does take damage or fall off a builing or whatever, and then has to make a Concentration Check to maintain the performance, what is the DC? Most similar situation DC's seem to be based on Spell Level, but this doesn't appear to have a spell level...


Is there something she is/we are missing in the Bard or Bardic Music Description?
We thought we checked all the obvious places (Con Skill, Spell Casting, Concentration in the PHB, AoO...).

Help please (thankfully it was a mental exercise that really didn't require our DM's rulling, but we forsee the situation arrising again next session)

 

[nittanytbone]

From the SRD:

Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), spell trigger (such as wands), or command word.

From the description for Fascinate:

If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly and listens to the song, taking no other actions, for as long as the bard continues to play and concentrate (up to a maximum of 1 round per bard level).

Song of Freedom:

Using this ability requires 1 minute of uninterrupted concentration and music...

Those are the only bardic music effects that require concentration listed in core. Thus, a bard can Inspire Courage as a Standard action, and keep singing until silenced one way or another as a free action each subsequent round (just as speech is a free action). This is a hold-back to 1E bards, who could sing and attack at the same time.

A bard that is concentrating still threatens squares and can still make attacks of opportunity. The bard simply must spend a standard action each round concentrating and pass the concentration check if something distracting occurs; they can do anything else they desire with their move action. This is similar to a caster maintaining concentration on an active spell; they still threaten nearby squares.

 

[Merkuri]

SO, does she still threaten squares around her? (since she's able to attack on her turn if she chooses).
Follow-up, were she to take her AoO does she automatically end her concentration on the Performance? (she hasn't used up her standard action, so she *could* spend it later next turn... but does the attack force an auto-stop on the performance).

Yes, she could take the AoO, but it would end her concentration. If she takes a standard action to restart the "song" next turn it would cost her another use of her bardic music ability, though since she already stopped and the song lasts for five rounds after stopping she may as well go and do something else for a few rounds (like continuing to attack) then restart the song later.

 

[nittanytbone]

Yes, she could take the AoO, but it would end her concentration.

Can you please cite a rule that explains that?

I know it seems common-sense that you can't take an AoO while concentrating without breaking your concentration, but out of curiosity I'd like to know where that is clarified... Thanks!

 

[Merkuri]

Can you please cite a rule that explains that?

I don't actually have a rule. I was just basing that off of common sense. I don't think there are any rules that say otherwise, though. Feel free to prove me wrong.

 

[Kaledor]

... Fascinate...Song of Freedom

Those are the only bardic music effects that require concentration listed in core. Thus, a bard can Inspire Courage as a Standard action, and keep singing until silenced one way or another as a free action each subsequent round (just as speech is a free action). This is a hold-back to 1E bards, who could sing and attack at the same time.

I figured b/c the wording of the ability says that the bard must continue to play that that would be like concentrating and take a standard action to accomplish... interesting!

A bard that is concentrating still threatens squares and can still make attacks of opportunity. The bard simply must spend a standard action each round concentrating and pass the concentration check if something distracting occurs; they can do anything else they desire with their move action. This is similar to a caster maintaining concentration on an active spell; they still threaten nearby squares.

See that was my thought, but clearly it's not the only theory... AND I can completely see the alternate theory as viable:

Yes, she could take the AoO, but it would end her concentration.

...

 

[Kaledor]

This still leaves the question of what is the DC of the concentration check when the Bard is concentrating, like with the fascinate ability.

Should it be considered the spell of a similar level (and the same with the song of freedom ability) ?

 

[Kaledor]

Upon further reading of the Bard and everything else, I am wondering if the Bard can just freely attack (and then also take AoO) without worry.

In the description it clearly states there are certain actions that cannot be taken (like spell-casting), but that would imply that any other action (not listed) is okay. Thus attacking while performing is allowed (by ommission). And if a standard attack action is allowed, then certainly an AoO is allowed...
And I guess then, the attacks would not end the Performance.

What do you all think?

 

[moritheil]

As a related question, the Tulani Eladrin in BoED may begin or maintain concentration on its bardic music as a free action every round. However, it is not explicitly stated that casting does not interfere with its bardic music. Does that mean that it still cannot use its spell-like abilities while singing, per RAW, even though that singing does not take up any limited actions and does not constitute a lapse in concentration from other activities?

 

[Wolfwood2]

We have a bard using storytelling to activate her Bardic Inspire Courage.
We know that she needs to spend a standard action each round to maintain concentration (or the ability ends and the effect ends 5 rounds later).

Since it is storytelling, she's still able to carry a weapon in her hands.

Interesting thing about Inspire Courage, it does not actually require a Perform check.

That means that it doesn't matter what type of Perform you have your ranks in, you can still Inspire Courage by singing while leaving your hands free for weapons. You could have Perform: Stringed Instruments and will have your hands free while using Inspire Courage in battle.

I just thought I should make this explicit, since I think a lot of people are scared off of instrumental perform skills for bards because they wrongly believe they won't be able to Inspire Courage and fight at the same time in combat, thus halving their effectiveness.