A critique and review of the Fighter class

Hello all,

I'll be honest I'm posting this merely to support my brother who just made this video with his thoughts on the the lack of role-playability of the fighter class. I would greatly appreciate you giving it a watch, as well as any critique, feedback, or suggestions!


Thank you! Sincerely, a halfling fiend looking for more gold.
 

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A few facts, like how often Fighters really get ASI's, and the sound quality (it's like the mike is being tapped every few seconds) can be quibbled about, but overall, I liked the video.

The problem being seen here is that the game doesn't really explain "what is roleplaying". Simply put, it's taking on the role of a character, and acting as if you were them.

If you're a brave Dwarven warrior, you may act tough, gruff, boisterous, or battle wise. You may have stories from long years serving in the armed forces, or as a mercenary. You could have practical experience with all sorts of weapons, armor, and tactics.

Right up until you're expected to "prove" this with a die roll. Then suddenly, all the details you've used to bring your character to life are brought into question. Do you have proficiency in skill X? Is your ability modifier low?

These are certainly problems, but the biggest factor you're up against is the mighty d20. Even a wizard with proficiency and an Intelligence of 19 can roll low, and a total dunce can roll high- this great variance means that high bonuses can still fail you.

What most DM's need to learn is the art of not rolling dice. Is it necessary to ask the Fighter if he knows something about actual war, battle, or strategy? Probably not, and yet, he's often asked to do so anyways.

Because, and this is the kicker, really, most classes don't have much to work with when they are asked to roll dice. You're going to have a low stat somewhere. You can't be proficient in all skills. Sure, you might have expertise in a couple skills, or some extra proficiencies, but each character is good at what they are good at by design. And if your Rogue has no real use for Charisma, then he isn't going to be any more dashing or suave than the typical Fighter.

An argument can be made that social skills actually subvert roleplaying- you can give an impassioned speech in character, but if the DM decides to make you roll, the success or failure is now up to a die, not your acting ability.

Sure, a good DM might give you a bonus- but you can always roll a 2. But the counter argument is, if the DM doesn't ask for rolls because you're a good roleplayer, then your actual abilities no longer matter, allowing you to succeed more often than players who might have better numbers, but better acting ability.

I mean, as an aside, most die rolls, you roll and then you see if you succeed or fail and roleplay accordingly. But have you ever noticed most social die rolls work in reverse? You are asked to roleplay first, then see if your effort mattered!

So I don't think it's the Fighter that has the problem here (though they could use a little more oomph), it's the fact that the game itself is fairly shabby when it comes to how it handles social encounters.

You can either try to convince the DM, or you can try to roll a die and hit some arbitrary (likely high) DC. Neither approach seems ideal. And worse, you might roll a 27 and still find an NPC resistant to your attempts at persuasion!

"He's a warlord who has conquered nations, he's not going to be afraid of a level 3 guy who can't even afford plate mail!"
 

Hello all,

I'll be honest I'm posting this merely to support my brother who just made this video with his thoughts on the the lack of role-playability of the fighter class. I would greatly appreciate you giving it a watch, as well as any critique, feedback, or suggestions!


Thank you! Sincerely, a halfling fiend looking for more gold.
before seeing it: problem is it is open ended instead of siloed like 90% of classes so it picks up too many archtypes, and it is on a different scale then the caster (unless you take a magic subclass but even then)

after watching.... What almost every other level ASI? they get 1... 1 extra ASI/feat in the 12 levels most people play and 2 if you actually play to 20.

wait I get that 1 class should not have to handle every nonmagical warrior, but I don't think they need more advice in RP as much as they need class features and abilities to choose from for other pillars.

we need there to be a group of warrior classes the way we have a group of divine and a group of arcane casters. A warlock and Sorcerer and Bard play different than a wizard... and I think WIZARD needs to be broken up.

the idea that the Knight and the musketeer and the town guard and the sword sage and the warlord all have to fit into a single class is nuts... especially the least effective and least customizable class
 

Hello all,

I'll be honest I'm posting this merely to support my brother who just made this video with his thoughts on the the lack of role-playability of the fighter class. I would greatly appreciate you giving it a watch, as well as any critique, feedback, or suggestions!


Thank you! Sincerely, a halfling fiend looking for more gold.
Okay, I'll start with first impressions.

The title and tumbnail are, IMO, not great. It might get views, though, IDK. "fix this now!" is especially...odd.

A couple minutes in, and I'm having to concentrate to follow what he's saying. There are a lot of pauses that aren't part of the sentence, if that makes sense. When speaking in public/as content, you really want your pauses to either be dramatically or comedically timed, or to represent punctuation, whether a period, comma, or colon, etc.

That might just take some practice, and/or more editing, it's not a huge deal.

Not sure it's a critique of the video, as such, but the premise is also kinda lacking, in that it ignores the fact that for many players, less mechanics = more freedom in roleplaying, and the fact that the subclasses are much more where a fighters gets roleplaying stuff.

The fighter more than any other class relies on subclass, background, and race, to give the player cues from which to roleplay. That isn't a problem, it just serves a different purpose than a class like the paladin.
 

The quality of the video was okay, but other people have mentioned my issues. The thing is though, I basically disagree with the premise. No one class can be a jack of all trades in and out of combat. It's also going to vary widely from campaign to campaign. Some groups are going to make rolls for most out-of-combat obstacles, others will almost never touch the dice.

In addition, want to play a persuasive fighter? Well, it's not that hard. You only really need strength (or dex depending on style) and constitution. Feel free to put your next highest number or spend points to get a decent charisma. Pick the right background and voile! You won't be as persuasive as a bard or sorcerer who can prioritize charisma but you'll be decent. There's nothing magic about running a paladin that gives you a decent charisma, it's just what you decide to prioritize.

Want to be a backup rogue? Do a dex based fighter with a street urchin background. Be a detective? Give yourself a decent intelligence and the investigator background. I find the fighter class more flexible all around than several of the other classes. I'm enjoying my monk, but I have to have a good dex, wisdom and con (since I'm frontline on a regular basis). Doesn't leave much room for anything else. Barbarian? Strength, dex con. Wizard? Well they only really need intelligence, but I end emphasizing dex next and then con (again) because my AC is terrible and I'll never have that many HP.

The fighter can have many capabilities outside of combat. You just have to decide if it's important to you as a player.
 

There's nothing magic about running a paladin that gives you a decent charisma, it's just what you decide to prioritize.
While technically true, Paladins get more class based benefits off charisma. They get to reap extra benefits from those points in both the social pillar and combat/exploration in terms of higher saves and save DC's. Some more maneuvers keying off Charisma (and higher level maneuvers) would help.
 


While technically true, Paladins get more class based benefits off charisma. They get to reap extra benefits from those points in both the social pillar and combat/exploration in terms of higher saves and save DC's. Some more maneuvers keying off Charisma (and higher level maneuvers) would help.
Whether or not it matters much varies vastly from game to game, player to player. How many fights do you have between long rest? How effectively do you balance spells vs smites? There's a lot of variation. I like playing paladins, they can be a blast, I have a fondness for Oath of the Ancients because misty stepping into the middle of the scrum just seems so paladin-like. But I like fighters too, for different reasons.

Fighters could, of course could get a power bump. Every class could. There is no such thing as perfect balance, I'm just pointing out that there's nothing stopping you from having a fighter that's decent at charisma abilities outside of combat.
 

Whether or not it matters much varies vastly from game to game, player to player. How many fights do you have between long rest? How effectively do you balance spells vs smites? There's a lot of variation. I like playing paladins, they can be a blast, I have a fondness for Oath of the Ancients because misty stepping into the middle of the scrum just seems so paladin-like. But I like fighters too, for different reasons.

Fighters could, of course could get a power bump. Every class could. There is no such thing as perfect balance, I'm just pointing out that there's nothing stopping you from having a fighter that's decent at charisma abilities outside of combat.
I think the fighter is a very strong class as is, but I'd love it if they added some explicitly non-combat utility to some of the features, like letting indomitable work for saving throws and ability checks (and changing it to "you can choose to succeed instead" like legendary resistance), and giving different wording for action surge to make clear some of what you can do outside of combat with it.

I also wouldn't hate fighters getting 2 tools or something, or like jack of all trades but for a shorter list of things, etc.
 

Whether or not it matters much varies vastly from game to game, player to player. How many fights do you have between long rest? How effectively do you balance spells vs smites? There's a lot of variation. I like playing paladins, they can be a blast, I have a fondness for Oath of the Ancients because misty stepping into the middle of the scrum just seems so paladin-like. But I like fighters too, for different reasons.

Fighters could, of course could get a power bump. Every class could. There is no such thing as perfect balance, I'm just pointing out that there's nothing stopping you from having a fighter that's decent at charisma abilities outside of combat.
For example, a Battlemaster can hand out a few temps based on Charisma, and you could back that up with Inspiring Leader if you wanted to.
 

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