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A Discussion in Game Design: The 15 minute work day.
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<blockquote data-quote="LostSoul" data-source="post: 5268153" data-attributes="member: 386"><p>That may be one problem from a certain point of view, but there are others. It's been too long since I read the 3E DMG so I'll just talk about 4E.</p><p></p><p>The 15-minute day is an optimal solution that significantly reduces the challenge of the game.</p><p></p><p>There are guidelines for the difficulty of the encounters that PCs should face based on their level. DCs and skill challenges are the same. If PCs are able to use all their resources in every encounter, the encounters are not very challenging.</p><p></p><p>The DM can cause problems for the PCs - not letting them rest , making sure they go through a set number of encounters between rests - but that presents two problems. 1) The choice to rest is taken out of the player's hands - it's not a choice at all. 2) Is there a system for this or is the DM on his own? This (refreshing resources) is a major part of the game; how does a DM decide what to do?</p><p></p><p>Two solutions seem obvious to me. One is to take away "when to rest" as a meaningful choice and set Extended Rests to happen after X number of encounters, no matter what. There's some space to play in there; a successful skill challenge might mean you get your extended rest early, failure means you have to fight another encounter. Locating a specific secret door that leads to a saferoom means you can take your rest now. Convincing the bandits that you can talk it out means you can avoid that encounter (or turn a combat into a Skill Challenge).</p><p></p><p>It could work, and it doesn't have to be that artificial/gamist, though you'd need to write a whole new chapter on how to DM - how to introduce appropriate consequences and rewards, how to design adventures with this in mind, that sort of thing.</p><p></p><p>The other way is to have the DM "play the setting" impartially as a living, breathing source of challenge and let the players guide their own destinies. This is AD&D's system as far as I can tell, but AD&D comes with a lot of things to make it work - wandering monsters, different DM advice, how to create an appropriate setting, and all of that.</p><p></p><p>To solve the problem you'd have to re-write how to DM the game.</p><p></p><p>*</p><p></p><p>However, saying all that, maybe it's not a flaw of the game design. Maybe the game designers <em>expected</em> DMs to see the problem and figure out their own ways to deal with it. Part of the game is plugging in your own system for figuring out how refreshes work, one that works for your group.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="LostSoul, post: 5268153, member: 386"] That may be one problem from a certain point of view, but there are others. It's been too long since I read the 3E DMG so I'll just talk about 4E. The 15-minute day is an optimal solution that significantly reduces the challenge of the game. There are guidelines for the difficulty of the encounters that PCs should face based on their level. DCs and skill challenges are the same. If PCs are able to use all their resources in every encounter, the encounters are not very challenging. The DM can cause problems for the PCs - not letting them rest , making sure they go through a set number of encounters between rests - but that presents two problems. 1) The choice to rest is taken out of the player's hands - it's not a choice at all. 2) Is there a system for this or is the DM on his own? This (refreshing resources) is a major part of the game; how does a DM decide what to do? Two solutions seem obvious to me. One is to take away "when to rest" as a meaningful choice and set Extended Rests to happen after X number of encounters, no matter what. There's some space to play in there; a successful skill challenge might mean you get your extended rest early, failure means you have to fight another encounter. Locating a specific secret door that leads to a saferoom means you can take your rest now. Convincing the bandits that you can talk it out means you can avoid that encounter (or turn a combat into a Skill Challenge). It could work, and it doesn't have to be that artificial/gamist, though you'd need to write a whole new chapter on how to DM - how to introduce appropriate consequences and rewards, how to design adventures with this in mind, that sort of thing. The other way is to have the DM "play the setting" impartially as a living, breathing source of challenge and let the players guide their own destinies. This is AD&D's system as far as I can tell, but AD&D comes with a lot of things to make it work - wandering monsters, different DM advice, how to create an appropriate setting, and all of that. To solve the problem you'd have to re-write how to DM the game. * However, saying all that, maybe it's not a flaw of the game design. Maybe the game designers [i]expected[/i] DMs to see the problem and figure out their own ways to deal with it. Part of the game is plugging in your own system for figuring out how refreshes work, one that works for your group. [/QUOTE]
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