Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A Discussion in Game Design: The 15 minute work day.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="BlubSeabass" data-source="post: 5268830" data-attributes="member: 87308"><p>I totally get what you're saying, but I disagree on some vital premises. Let me start of saying that I never played 4e, and play Pathfinder. I'm going to try to explain why I see the 15 minute work-day as a gameplay failure, aside from the narrative attractive " acting heroic".</p><p></p><p>Resource management is a very important aspect of strategy in 3.x/pf. Especially on lower/mid levels, and especially for casters. The way your battle looks is strongly dependant on how many battles the PC's predict they will encounter today after this one. Some even might say that the balance of the classes depends on the resources aswell. The fighter shines more or less equally over all battles, while the wizard loses a lot of power when he burns his resources. </p><p></p><p>The point with the 15-minute work day, is that it denies the point of resource management. resources can be nova'd, and then people just take a rest to regain the resources. Hence, <strong>players are actually encouraged to nova</strong>, because it makes them stronger. As long as the DM does not tackle this(It's impossible to rest), the players don't have to think long to decide what to do. The option to rest is just infinitely better. Encouragement of one certain play-style, and certainly one that involves always doing all the cool stuff that you have, has the tendancy to reduce challenge, strategy and fun. Here lies the problem. The system actually encourages the player to do something that is likely not fun. <strong>The strategy of resource management is gone.</strong> This aside from what some people may also see as a balancing issue.</p><p></p><p>Now the DM can stick this. He can threathen the player with evil things and time limits to press the PC's onwards. But here is where I think you made a wrong premise. <strong>We don't want to force the player to do something.</strong> We don't like hitting our players with a stick (well except when they're playing painfully dumb). We want to encourage a certain play-style, just as much as another play-style is encouraged. Resting has the major benefit of replendishing resources. What does pushing on bring us? Absolutely nothing. Any optimizing party that would take 1 second to think, would rest if he could.</p><p></p><p>So to include the marvelous strategy of resource management, that shapes battles into different tales, the DM is currently forced to take the choice of resting away from the party. It would be more fun for both the players and the DM, if the PC had a reason to go on instead of rest. Hence the carrot.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BlubSeabass, post: 5268830, member: 87308"] I totally get what you're saying, but I disagree on some vital premises. Let me start of saying that I never played 4e, and play Pathfinder. I'm going to try to explain why I see the 15 minute work-day as a gameplay failure, aside from the narrative attractive " acting heroic". Resource management is a very important aspect of strategy in 3.x/pf. Especially on lower/mid levels, and especially for casters. The way your battle looks is strongly dependant on how many battles the PC's predict they will encounter today after this one. Some even might say that the balance of the classes depends on the resources aswell. The fighter shines more or less equally over all battles, while the wizard loses a lot of power when he burns his resources. The point with the 15-minute work day, is that it denies the point of resource management. resources can be nova'd, and then people just take a rest to regain the resources. Hence, [B]players are actually encouraged to nova[/B], because it makes them stronger. As long as the DM does not tackle this(It's impossible to rest), the players don't have to think long to decide what to do. The option to rest is just infinitely better. Encouragement of one certain play-style, and certainly one that involves always doing all the cool stuff that you have, has the tendancy to reduce challenge, strategy and fun. Here lies the problem. The system actually encourages the player to do something that is likely not fun. [B]The strategy of resource management is gone.[/B] This aside from what some people may also see as a balancing issue. Now the DM can stick this. He can threathen the player with evil things and time limits to press the PC's onwards. But here is where I think you made a wrong premise. [B]We don't want to force the player to do something.[/B] We don't like hitting our players with a stick (well except when they're playing painfully dumb). We want to encourage a certain play-style, just as much as another play-style is encouraged. Resting has the major benefit of replendishing resources. What does pushing on bring us? Absolutely nothing. Any optimizing party that would take 1 second to think, would rest if he could. So to include the marvelous strategy of resource management, that shapes battles into different tales, the DM is currently forced to take the choice of resting away from the party. It would be more fun for both the players and the DM, if the PC had a reason to go on instead of rest. Hence the carrot. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
A Discussion in Game Design: The 15 minute work day.
Top