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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kagayaku" data-source="post: 7156487" data-attributes="member: 6876021">Thanks Quickleaf!, thanks Ath-kethin!I've only recently bought the PHB, DMG and MM, so I'd rather not buy the Primeval Thule right now, but it sounds like they cover exactly my circumstance so maybe I'll consider the PDF. Can anyone weigh in on this recommendation one way or the other?You've both said to keep the battle focussed on the PCs, and that sounds like good advice. I'm thinking the players and characters will get a sense of the battlefield at large in the early stages of the siege, looking out at the surrounding encampments from the tops of town walls, but once the siege starts they'll be drawn by the chaos into personal survival and local threats.Only one of the PCs is likely to have command of even a small unit (sans possibly some of the more charismatic characters getting themselves small ad-hoc followers), but I like the idea of the unit cards. Can you please elaborate on those, Quickleaf? The kinds of things they allow the PCs to do, if you think they work best as essentially combat actions for units, once a battle powers, or somewhere in between?I'll almost certainly use the Mob Rules now, thank you for bringing those to my attention. I also like the way of thinking about the Push of Pikes as a moving dungeon room and the small weapon constraint, that makes sense to me. We usually allow Opportunity Attacks whenever it makes sense rather than following the real rules and I think our rule will naturally reduce these; if you make yourself vulnerable by eg. picking up a weapon adjacent to an enemy they get an attack, but if a creature is being eg. attacked on all sides they may be unable to attempt Opportunity Attacks at all.I'll have to think some more on the 3-5 objectives as really, taking out siege weapons and maybe key commanders is all I have right now. I think the town will also have a much better chance if they can provoke groups of the easily agitated orcs into attacking early while their commander wants them to hold back and defend the siege equipment to breach the walls. I do have some reasonably well fleshed out commanders on both sides though so I will try and incorporate their personalities as you suggest.I have a rough, broad-scale timeline of battle events if the players do nothing if that's of any interest to you (if something here makes no sense to you do let me know haha):[edit] And yes, I'm aware this is basically the script of Helm's Deep xD[/edit]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">[already happened] one of the PCs, a princess of a nearby land, sends a carrier with a message asking for help from her family as the PCs are meeting the local lord tomorrow in unfavourable circumstances </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">[already happened] As the PCs meet with the lord, a scout bursts in reporting orcs on the move 2 days march away </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">[already happened] A war council is formed, and work is made to fortify the town, spread propaganda, harvest vulnerable crops and fill the granaries, stockpile weapons and armour, train able bodied peasantry to make better use of their weapons, pray to the gods, dig pit traps, and send out more scouts. Messages are sent to nearby settlements requesting aid. The nearest city is about 5 days march away and the orcs are marching from almost that direction so carriers may or may not make it to the city. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Panic spreads and people begin to flee the town, the guards are ordered to stop any person capable of wielding arms from leaving the town. Scattered in-fighting ensues. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The orc army approaches over the horizon, young and feeble people, and some fighters, are called back into the walls of the town and barricades are readied at the gates. Archers man forward defences about 100 ft ahead of the main walls (for play reasons: 1 round of dashing + 1 round of movement, also visualisation - from the room we are playing in to the house across the street xD). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Scouts and spies are despatched from both sides to monitor the enemy and probe for weakness, causing minor skirmishes. The orcs set up encampments encircling the town at about 1000 ft (which for ease of visualisation is about the length of our local park) from the main walls, a little outside the range of defensive mangonels with elevation. Orcs begin assembling their own ikea-branded mangonels but no scouts survive with this information. Raiding and razing of outlying buildings and fields. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Skirmishes are fought at the forward defences.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Town's people strike at poorly placed orc and goblin units during days (limited mounted archers and cavalry carrying archers making hit and runs) causing minor attrition and taking minor loses. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Disposable goblins and bloodthirsty orcs charge the forward defences during nights, causing moderate goblin losses, some orc losses and total defeat of many of the forward defences with moderate losses. </li> </ul>  </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Town retreats from remaining forward defences over the losses. Under cover of darkness orcs commanding goblins move mangonels into range of the main walls and gates. The town is bombarded. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The town attempts to respond with its own mangonels and archers, firing burning pitch and arrows into the darkness. This has limited success and causing some orc units to charge early, getting them killed by archers on the walls. The siege continues though and the town is forced to scramble its limited mounted forces to deal with the catapults, taxiing archers and dropping them off at useful range en-route </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Most catapults or their teams are destroyed by the end of the night but not before one gate and one section of wall are collapsed. Many goblins not suited for combatting cavalry were also killed and many more flee, but the cavalry is met by orc javelins at range and melee and about 90 percent of it is destroyed. Goblins and orcs chase down the archers in some locations causing heavy losses on both sides. Remaining archers and cavalry retreat. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The town's people desperately try to reinforce the fallen areas with manpower, redirecting guards and civilians from other sides of the town. Goblins are sent as a first wave carrying a mix of spears, maces, axes and shortswords and meet a mix of terrified guards and peasantry with spears and shields at the gate. The goblins climb the collapsed wall sections and begin to over-run the archers on the wall. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A Push of Pike (well, spear) forms at the gate as both sides are depleted, the goblins taking heavier losses from both spears and arrows. Some goblins tumble through and begin to cause chaos inside the town, flanking behind the guards' formation and harassing defensive archers and siege teams as well as looting and vandalising the town. They are hunted by civilians and guards inside the town who were there to ensure order is maintained even during the siege. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Orcs and goblins charge the far side of the town, now more lightly defended, carrying ladders and grappling hooks to climb the walls. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The orcs amass and charge the gate, throwing a semi-organised volley of javelins as they charge, destroying many units on both sides of the Push of Pike including much of the trained guardship. Remaining archers respond turning their attention to the orcs. The towns catapults fire shrapnel into the orcs, but have limited success as they are being harassed by the tumbled goblins. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A small group of cavalry commanded by the princess PC's brother rides in and destroys remaining orc catapult teams, capturing a couple of catapults and firing a volley of stones into the backs of the orcs. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The orcs arrive at the gate, swinging their greataxes and slaughtering large sections of the forces there. The lord's brash son refuses to issue a retreat order and commands his men to ensure no one flees, but many of his own men are fleeing already. Some orcs break off to charge the princess's brother and his soldiers. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Remaining forces retreat to the keep, but many are barricaded outside as the orcs encroach and are slaughtered. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Outside the city, cavalry and horse archers from a nearby town arrive and mop up some fleeing goblins as they heads toward the gates. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The princess's brother loses a small number of men to orc javelins and orders a tactical retreat before joining with the arriving cavalry. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Inside the town walls, goblins and orcs are pillaging and razing the town. Archers try to defend the keep and men and women inside try to brace the heavy doors as orcs attempt to force their way in with their axes. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The newly arrived mounted forces approach the gates and are met by orc javelins. The doors of the keep are breached and orcs start piling into the corridors where a chaotic crushed battle ensues. Some people fight, others pray, still others flee into the keep or just give up. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The cavalry overwhelm the orcs at the gate and spread through the town, slaughtering orcs and goblins as they come across them. Many of them charge the orcs around the keep and suddenly the orcs are trapped, being slaughtered by cavalry and mounted archers. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Inside the keep combatants on both sides realise this, some orcs try to flee, townspeople get a second wind, and the orcs are destroyed. Goblin and human looters alike and some orcs flee the town with their new wealth. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The town is left with only a fraction of its former population, many buildings and resources destroyed, the walls and gates heavily damaged and fires spreading through the town. They have many difficult decisions to make. </li> </ul>I think much of the timeline wont matter too heavily as if the PCs can't see it they wont know until afterwards what happened. It does mean I'll have an idea what's going on outside of the PCs' area of immediate influence though, which could be useful. I'll probably use a system I saw on Drunkards & Dragons, where he rolls dice in front of the players and every turn reduces them by 1. I'll use a small dice for the princess's brother, a larger dice for the incoming allied cavalry, and more for certain other events, but I wont tell the players what they mean. Much tension!</blockquote>

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