A General Rant: Why are Half Orcs getting the short end in Incarnum?

[Storyteller01]

Per the book, Incarnum has its basis in Constitution. With this reasoning, half orcs should excel in this type of magic, at least with the evil aspect. So why are they listed among the races that rarely use this magic? Why are they getting shafted?

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Consistency.

Half-Orcs are the most shafted core race in the game.

The only reason to ever PLAY a half-orc is for that angsty under-dog feeling of knowing you went with the worst and tried to make a gem of it.

--fje

 

[Storyteller01]

Yea. Found some books that helps reverse this (both for game play and in novels). Seems odd to do so though.

 

[MerricB]

Because Half-Orcs don't get a Con bonus in 3e?

Half-Orcs make decent totemists, though.

Cheers!

 

[Sejs]

Per the book, Incarnum has its basis in Constitution. With this reasoning, half orcs should excel in this type of magic, at least with the evil aspect. So why are they listed among the races that rarely use this magic? Why are they getting shafted?

I'm failing to see the connection that you're making here Storyteller.

"Per the book, Incarnum has its basis in Constitution"

"With this reasoning, half orcs should excel in this type of magic..."

Why? Half orcs have no modifier to their con score. Half orcs are just as hardy as a halfling is or, heck, a half elf.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

You missed the REAL reason that half-orc get shafted in that book....the Skarn(sp?).

They get +2STR and -2DEX....and a boatload of other abilities. Didn't we already hear from WotC that you had to give up two stats to get a +2STR because its somehow more important (even though DEX *IS* more important).

DS

 

[Staffan]

They get +2STR and -2DEX....and a boatload of other abilities. Didn't we already hear from WotC that you had to give up two stats to get a +2STR because its somehow more important (even though DEX *IS* more important).

No, you have to give up two mental stats to compensate for a Strength bonus. From the DMG 3.0 (paraphrased):
A Str bonus is balanced by a penalty to: Dex, Con, Int+Cha, Int+Wis, or Wis+Cha.
A Dex bonus is balanced by a penalty to: Str, Con, Int+Cha, Int+Wis, or Wis+Cha.
A Con bonus is balanced by a penalty to: Dex, Int, Wis or Cha.
A bonus to any of the mental stats is balanced by a penalty to any of the other mental stats.

Now, whether you agree with that or not is a different matter, but that's what they're saying anyway.

 

[Mad Mac]

As stated, Half-Orcs always get the shaft as a matter of official policy.

Could be worse, though...*imagines NG Half-Orc Incarnate*

Yes, I still don't think the Incarnate alignments are balanced. Good gets nothing, evil gets a bit more than nothing but with a stylish necro twist, while law/chaos get to dominate melee/ranged combat, respectively.

 

[Storyteller01]

I'm failing to see the connection that you're making here Storyteller.

"Per the book, Incarnum has its basis in Constitution"

"With this reasoning, half orcs should excel in this type of magic..."

Why? Half orcs have no modifier to their con score. Half orcs are just as hardy as a halfling is or, heck, a half elf.

Going off the fluff rather than the stats. Elves don't (generallY) gain a bonus to Int, but they excel at wizardry (to the point of it being a favored class).

Seems odd to have an option (orcs and hlaf-orcs have to have a high Con to exist in their lifewstyle), and ignore it as 'primitive cultures don't do that'. Seems especially wierd consideringh they gave dwarves, a race that traditionally distains magic, their own PrC.

Been doing research on advances by cultures originally thought as inferior. The book struck a sore spot.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

No, you have to give up two mental stats to compensate for a Strength bonus. From the DMG 3.0 (paraphrased):
A Str bonus is balanced by a penalty to: Dex, Con, Int+Cha, Int+Wis, or Wis+Cha.
A Dex bonus is balanced by a penalty to: Str, Con, Int+Cha, Int+Wis, or Wis+Cha.
A Con bonus is balanced by a penalty to: Dex, Int, Wis or Cha.
A bonus to any of the mental stats is balanced by a penalty to any of the other mental stats.

Now, whether you agree with that or not is a different matter, but that's what they're saying anyway.

except that wood elves get +2 str -2 int (only) and all the normal elf perks, which are arguably better than the half orc perks. Wild elves get +2 dex -2 int (only), same deal. So really, its just a matter of half orcs getting shafted. (which is such a self evident point I'm not sure why we have to say it).