A Gentleperson's Wager: Druids in the PHB1

[Mouseferatu]

??? The druid was originally introduced (in Eldritch Wizardry) as a full class, and has been so ever since... unless you are referring to something form the basic-expert-etc set which came later?

The druid of the Rules Cyclopedia is essentially a PrC. A cleric of 9th- to 29th-level can shift into being a druid from being a cleric.

But as you point out, this isn't the origin of the class in D&D. (In fact, while I may have my dates wrong--and I'm sure someone will tell me if I do --I think the AD&D druid may actually predate the one that was later reprinted in the RC.)

 

[an_idol_mind]

The druid of the Rules Cyclopedia is essentially a PrC. A cleric of 9th- to 29th-level can shift into being a druid from being a cleric.

But as you point out, this isn't the origin of the class in D&D. (In fact, while I may have my dates wrong--and I'm sure someone will tell me if I do --I think the AD&D druid may actually predate the one that was later reprinted in the RC.)

Correct. The Rules Cyclopedia contained work that was introduced during the BECMI era, of which the first boxed set wasn't printed until 1983. By that time, the druid had appeared as a full class in both the oD&D supplements and the AD&D Player's Handbook.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Fighter
Paladin
Warlord
Cleric
Wizard
Warlock
Rogue
Ranger


so this seems to be the list. Now I know some of these are only on the list because they were mentioned as apart of the playtest, and are not actually confirmed. How do we know this list is really what will go in the phb? Also, how do we know the paladin is a base class? Has that been confirmed? If a fighter had a talent tree called paladin, Would you still call the fighter a fighter, or would you call it a Paladin? And warlord, How do we know that they are their own class or another fighter tree?

I think we have too many assumptions about the game to really say that all the seats are taken. If this was 3.5, sure but its 4e and class we dont know how trees fully work. We know that their wont be prcs but will trees be the new prc?

If its true that trees have such a dramatic impact on role and the class itself we could also see a druid being very different even though it may be a cleric tree.

 

[Li Shenron]

I've seen other people suggest this, but has anyone else considered some of the Druid and Bard being folded together?

I really think the two should have nothing to do with each other. As a matter of fact I have a hard time thinking of two classes which are most distant from each other than Druid and Bard...

 

[Aloïsius]

I really think the two should have nothing to do with each other. As a matter of fact I have a hard time thinking of two classes which are most distant from each other than Druid and Bard...

I respectfully disagree. They should be master of knowledge, in a non-wizardly way, and their magic should be closely related (charm, illusion, nature magic, healing...) . IMHO.

IMC, druids will kill bards and take their stuff.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Anyway: druids as a cleric specialization makes baby Obad-Hai cry. They should be more distinct from clerics, not less!

I see this the other way around... Druids are the pinnacle of cleric specializations, the other domains should be redone to more appropriately reflect that specialization... and do away with the dull and boring, non-specialized cleric.

Clerics of Obad-Hai have druidic ablities
Clerics of Dol Dorn focus on martial strength and power
Clerics of Mystra have arcane casting abilities
...
Each cleric speciality shaped by the calling to which they follow.

Bring back spell spheres and make the Cleric talent trees provide domain ablities!!!

We have the technology, it can be done!



As to the Druid/Bard divide... both are casters who use an understanding of the natural to empower thier spells. One focuses on the harmony of the wilderness, the other focuses on harmony itself.
I could easily go back to the Bard being Druidic in nature...

 

[Exen Trik]

I've seen other people suggest this, but has anyone else considered some of the Druid and Bard being folded together?

I could see them both having their power strongly tied to the feywild. As far as being folded together, no, but if they get a little bit of each others flavor that wouldn't be such a bad thing. So long as the druid has less overall than they do now.

 

[the_myth]

I really think the two should have nothing to do with each other. As a matter of fact I have a hard time thinking of two classes which are most distant from each other than Druid and Bard...

Actually, the Bards of 1st edition AD&D had druid spells and were known to be allied with Druids. Also, real world Druids and Bards were parts of the same religion.

Your opinion is biased on the last 2 editions of D&D with the Bards alliance with arcane magic. While it made some sense to make this shift in 2E, there seems to be something...amiss...with Bards in 3E. I don't think I am alone in thinking it's time for another reboot.

Oh, and back in OD&D Eldritch Wizardry/Blackmoor/Chainmail era, Druids were cleric/magic-users with extra shapeshifting powers [I believe they were level 5-7 Cleric and 7-9 MU or something like that...that's why their spell list was primarily made of cleric and wizard spells...later editions went wild making nature-oriented spells for them]. That's how they first appeared.

I think their next appearance was either in Dragon or in the AD&D Player's Handbook. They were later added to OD&D [in the Companion rules? I think it was the Green Box] as an option for high-level Clerics [someone described this earlier].

if the Cleric is built differently [perhaps inspired from the ideas in 2E Skills & Powers] we should be able to build a Cleric just as Primitive Screwhead described above...and have every last one of them balanced! Thus, a Cleric taking the Druid route would gain nature knowledge, shapeshifting powers, and perks with nature spells. A Crusader could focus on weaponds and armor skill. Et cetera.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

I've seen other people suggest this, but has anyone else considered some of the Druid and Bard being folded together?

I really liked the idea someone had of the Druid and Bard serving different roles of the same source. Bard as leader and Druid as controller, with wildshape being spun off into a Skinwalker class that serves the enforcer role.

 

[Gloombunny]

I really liked the idea someone had of the Druid and Bard serving different roles of the same source. Bard as leader and Druid as controller, with wildshape being spun off into a Skinwalker class that serves the enforcer role.

I really like this, especially with the Feywild angle. And I normally hate anything having to do with bards.

Ooh, what if the PHB ranger is magicless like many of us have been hoping, but they print a couple magic talent trees for it along with the druid, bard, and shapeshifter?