A little more on TSR's strange strategy

[northrundicandus]

I don't find it odd at all. If customers want the older books - print 'em!

WotC/Hasbro is sitting on a mountain of older intellectual property, and they aren't doing much with it. If there's a demand for straight-up reprints of older material, do it!

 

[The_Gunslinger658]

I don't find it odd at all. If customers want the older books - print 'em!

WotC/Hasbro is sitting on a mountain of older intellectual property, and they aren't doing much with it. If there's a demand for straight-up reprints of older material, do it!

Hi-

What I am curious about is why does'nt WoTC just give Gygax back the rights to 1E? WoTC has made a ton of money off 3E and I'm also sure if 1E was put back into print it would take off like a lead zepplelin. To many people have invested to much into 3.x to go back to the old books plus WoTC can alway charge a usage fee.


Scott

 

[Henry]

Hi-

What I am curious about is why does'nt WoTC just give Gygax back the rights to 1E?

Two reasons, as I understand it:

1) Gary doesn't want it. His plate's pretty full these days between some previous health problems, creating material for Troll Lords and other vendors, AND devoting most of his time and energy to the Lejendary Adventures community.

2) WotC has an intellectual property deal of some sort (unspecified details) for all of their 1E and 2E material with Kenzer and Company, who is using it to fuel their fairly successful Hackmaster franchise.

While I think it's true that it would be beneficial to have new 1E material in current circulation, I accept that it's not likely to happen. At the least, 90% of all the old 1st edition modules and sourcebooks are indeed still available as PDF material through RPGNow, thanks to Jim Butler, Wizards of the Coast, and a few other unsung heroes,

 

[wingsandsword]

What I am curious about is why does'nt WoTC just give Gygax back the rights to 1E? WoTC has made a ton of money off 3E and I'm also sure if 1E was put back into print it would take off like a lead zepplelin. To many people have invested to much into 3.x to go back to the old books plus WoTC can alway charge a usage fee.

Probably because the 1e/2e rights are tied up with KenzerCo for Hackmaster.

As for setting materials, yes WotC is sitting on a huge mountain of settings they haven't even touched in 3e (a rare Dragon article aside) and aren't licensing out: Birthright, Kara Tur, Dark Sun, Dark*Matter, Mystara, Red Steel/Savage Coast, and Al Qadim come to mind.

I figure they are keeping all that quietly in reserve for when they run out of things to do in the long run. A way to stall creating a new edition would be to go back and release 3e versions of settings they know some fans will want, and will be brand new to others.

 

[Ourph]

New printings of the 1e PHB were viable because there was still a lot of stock left of the other 1e core books at the time. People who were buying a new 1e MM, DMG or Oriental Adventures book wanted a PHB of the same edition to go along with it. Printing enough PHBs to help drive the sales of their remaining 1e stock was actually a smart decision, especially considering people who bought those books probably converted to 2e a few years later anyway.

 

[Staffan]

Probably because the 1e/2e rights are tied up with KenzerCo for Hackmaster.

I don't think they're tied up per se. I recall when Hackwurld of Mystaros was first announced and lots of Mystara fans (all three of them ) screamed and shouted that now there would never be a proper 3e version of their favorite setting. I think one of the Kenzer folks said something like "Chill. Us releasing a Hacked version of some old stuff doesn't mean WOTC can't make a proper version of it for themselves or license it out to someone else."

I figure they are keeping all that quietly in reserve for when they run out of things to do in the long run. A way to stall creating a new edition would be to go back and release 3e versions of settings they know some fans will want, and will be brand new to others.

I've heard that WOTC don't really want anything to do with the old settings, reasoning that most of them have already failed once, and money would probably be better spent developing new stuff.

 

[francisca]

Two reasons, as I understand it:

1) Gary doesn't want it. His plate's pretty full these days between some previous health problems, creating material for Troll Lords and other vendors, AND devoting most of his time and energy to the Lejendary Adventures community.

2) WotC has an intellectual property deal of some sort (unspecified details) for all of their 1E and 2E material with Kenzer and Company, who is using it to fuel their fairly successful Hackmaster franchise.

While I think it's true that it would be beneficial to have new 1E material in current circulation, I accept that it's not likely to happen. At the least, 90% of all the old 1st edition modules and sourcebooks are indeed still available as PDF material through RPGNow, thanks to Jim Butler, Wizards of the Coast, and a few other unsung heroes,

Like Kenzer and Jolly wouldn't work out a deal with Gygax if he wanted it back.....

I'd think Hasbro/Wizards not wanting to let it out, followed by Gary being over it, are much bigger reasons than Kenzerco having rights to the old material.

 

[wingsandsword]

I've heard that WOTC don't really want anything to do with the old settings, reasoning that most of them have already failed once, and money would probably be better spent developing new stuff.

The thing is, some of those settings didn't fail, they were terminated when WotC started to cut down on settings. Planescape most notably fits this model.

WotC used to license out some of their old settings, it was expensive and the terms of the license were harsh, but Gamma World, Ravenloft and Dragonlance were licensed out. Other gaming companies have tried to license out some other discontinued settings and were at first cited truly outrageous fees that the property could never make, then eventually told that WotC has no interest in licensing out old settings anymore.

People always assume WotC is eventually looking out for the bottom line. 3rd Party gaming companies are willing to pay WotC handsomely to license IP that they aren't using, and WotC is refusing. It would just be losing money for WotC to turn down these deals unless WotC had some plans for the property themself one day. It might not be a full product line, hopefully WotC has learned form the old TSR failing of keeping a dozen competing lines going at once, but how many of them could be made as suppliments for another setting or generic multi-setting books?

Maztica, Al Qadim and Kara Tur were all sub-settings of Forgotten Realms, and each one could make a hardcover soucebook easily. Dark*Matter could easily be paired with Agents of PSI and turned into a "d20 Conspiracy" sourcebook.

 

[TerraDave]

On the same site it notes that Unearthed Arcana was being published for two years after 2nd edition debued.

One thing about this strategy is that you are selling something knowing you are not going to support it...but you are still selling it, raising questions about your confidence/committment to the new edition...it can come accross as both cynical and a questionable bussiness judgement. But, as Janx pointed out, it may just be that there was no strategy

 

[TerraDave]

OD&D was being produced/published alongside the Basic sets (2edD&D and 3edD&D Holmes) and 1edADnD until 1979.

A very good point. Starting in 1977 multiple editions where in print, and in the fall of 1979 TSR would do print runs for Basic, OD&D and all 5 of its suplements, and the three AD&D hardbacks.

At least the OD&D Box set said "collector's edition", implying it was an older version. And there where no more printings of OD&D material after the "revised" (final) DMG was released at the end of 79.

Though they must have printed a lot, since they where selling those white boxes for a long time afterwords.