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<blockquote data-quote="Shayuri" data-source="post: 7649651" data-attributes="member: 4936"><p>There's different kinds of losses for me. Some losses are 'story driven.' Like if my character loses a friend, or loved one, but the loss has no material effect on that character's game experience. It's pure roleplaying then; the loss is entirely the characters, and not mine. That's pretty easy to deal with, but perhaps falls under 'what I'd be willing to lose' and is therefore not loss at all. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>What's harder to deal with is things that make my character impotent. That could be losing the weapon I need, or the power to cast spells, or yeah, dying. The joke of the fighter cowering from rust monsters is that he'd rather die than lose his stuff, because dying is easier to recover from than losing a truly sweet piece of equipment. Or it was.</p><p></p><p>Roleplaying games are essentially dolled-up power fantasies in most cases. We want to be strong and wise and smart. We want to be badass. We want to work our wills on the world and have it take heed. And we want to feel like we earned it. Usually.</p><p></p><p>So taking away a character's potency is taking away <em>the point of the game</em>. Now, a good player will take losses in stride, and see them as ways to challenge a character to excel, or to tell a good story. But there is an expectation on the part of even the most understanding players that the loss won't be permanent. If he dies, he can come back (or make a new character). If the sword is stolen, it can be recovered, or a new one obtained. If the spellcasting is lost, there will be some macguffin that can restore it. The 'loss' is therefore a temporary thing; a challenge to be overcome, not a career-ending thing. </p><p></p><p>This might make it seem like players are just wusses who can't take a hit, but that's not how I mean it. A game where my wizard is Feebleminded and can't get it fixed would be...stupid. Why would I stick myself with that? It'd be like playing Monopoly where we didn't have any money and just rolled dice to move aimlessly and fruitlessly around the board.</p><p></p><p>But lurking in the background is that clause in the power-fantasy where we want to feel like we earned it. Too light winning makes the prize light. No pain, no gain. That is <em>deeply</em> part of our genetic memory. The principle is programmed into our brains, where you can actually make someone value something they ordinarily would not, by making them work hard to obtain it. The risk of loss has to either be real, or convincingly portrayed, because having power means nothing without having opposition. Enemies must be crushed, but in order to BE an enemy, it must be a threat. Threat means risk of loss.</p><p></p><p>So the game offers a compromise. Yes, it says, I will kill you sometimes, but you can get better. You will lose stuff occasionally, but replacements can be had. The threat of immediate loss is real, but because you're a totally awesome badass who I want to buy more of my stuff, I will make sure that -lasting- loss does not happen.</p><p></p><p>I think it's a reasonable compromise. Different systems draw that line in different spots, and that spot can be customized pretty easily, but the basic principle seems sound.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Shayuri, post: 7649651, member: 4936"] There's different kinds of losses for me. Some losses are 'story driven.' Like if my character loses a friend, or loved one, but the loss has no material effect on that character's game experience. It's pure roleplaying then; the loss is entirely the characters, and not mine. That's pretty easy to deal with, but perhaps falls under 'what I'd be willing to lose' and is therefore not loss at all. :) What's harder to deal with is things that make my character impotent. That could be losing the weapon I need, or the power to cast spells, or yeah, dying. The joke of the fighter cowering from rust monsters is that he'd rather die than lose his stuff, because dying is easier to recover from than losing a truly sweet piece of equipment. Or it was. Roleplaying games are essentially dolled-up power fantasies in most cases. We want to be strong and wise and smart. We want to be badass. We want to work our wills on the world and have it take heed. And we want to feel like we earned it. Usually. So taking away a character's potency is taking away [i]the point of the game[/i]. Now, a good player will take losses in stride, and see them as ways to challenge a character to excel, or to tell a good story. But there is an expectation on the part of even the most understanding players that the loss won't be permanent. If he dies, he can come back (or make a new character). If the sword is stolen, it can be recovered, or a new one obtained. If the spellcasting is lost, there will be some macguffin that can restore it. The 'loss' is therefore a temporary thing; a challenge to be overcome, not a career-ending thing. This might make it seem like players are just wusses who can't take a hit, but that's not how I mean it. A game where my wizard is Feebleminded and can't get it fixed would be...stupid. Why would I stick myself with that? It'd be like playing Monopoly where we didn't have any money and just rolled dice to move aimlessly and fruitlessly around the board. But lurking in the background is that clause in the power-fantasy where we want to feel like we earned it. Too light winning makes the prize light. No pain, no gain. That is [i]deeply[/i] part of our genetic memory. The principle is programmed into our brains, where you can actually make someone value something they ordinarily would not, by making them work hard to obtain it. The risk of loss has to either be real, or convincingly portrayed, because having power means nothing without having opposition. Enemies must be crushed, but in order to BE an enemy, it must be a threat. Threat means risk of loss. So the game offers a compromise. Yes, it says, I will kill you sometimes, but you can get better. You will lose stuff occasionally, but replacements can be had. The threat of immediate loss is real, but because you're a totally awesome badass who I want to buy more of my stuff, I will make sure that -lasting- loss does not happen. I think it's a reasonable compromise. Different systems draw that line in different spots, and that spot can be customized pretty easily, but the basic principle seems sound. [/QUOTE]
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