A lost version of the AD&D classes and races?

[James Gasik]

I remember that witch class well; it was terrifyingly overpowered. I was playing a pretty tough fighter in the old JG City State of the World Emperor and we attacked the caves of the Witches of Marmon, who appeared in the wilderness guide. Our DM used the class from the Dragon (3 of them; Shakespeare runs deep....) and we got our butts kicked. Not quite a TPK but close to.

Was that the version of the Witch with the Seduction spell? God that thing was horrible.

 

[GuyBoy]

Was that the version of the Witch with the Seduction spell? God that thing was horrible.

The only seduction spell I remember was the Houri from an early White Dwarf, which was horrendous.
These witches poisoned us by spells, in days when poison was save or die, cast crush spells that did immense damage, cast mass mummy rot and entombed characters in stone.
I was a player so didn't have the details, just felt the pain! I do remember that the half-elf mage, Calanthia, was slain and, much later in the campaign, we conquered our own city which we renamed Calanthia in her honour. I later also used the name as a powerful kingdom in a homebrew world.
so the power of the Witches of Marmon resonated.

 

[James Gasik]

The only seduction spell I remember was the Houri from an early White Dwarf, which was horrendous.
These witches poisoned us by spells, in days when poison was save or die, cast crush spells that did immense damage, cast mass mummy rot and entombed characters in stone.
I was a player so didn't have the details, just felt the pain! I do remember that the half-elf mage, Calanthia, was slain and, much later in the campaign, we conquered our own city which we renamed Calanthia in her honour. I later also used the name as a powerful kingdom in a homebrew world.
so the power of the Witches of Marmon resonated.

Ok maybe it's a later version of the Witch. I just remember this goofy spell that had a non-standard saving throw (that factored in character class and alignment), and if you fail, you immediately disrobe and try to (ahem) with the Witch.

I saw this in action in a game and I was horrified. Especially when the first thing the party did was murder the naked fools.

 

[GuyBoy]

Ok maybe it's a later version of the Witch. I just remember this goofy spell that had a non-standard saving throw (that factored in character class and alignment), and if you fail, you immediately disrobe and try to (ahem) with the Witch.

I saw this in action in a game and I was horrified. Especially when the first thing the party did was murder the naked fools.

You could just as easily be right but my DM didn't chuck this one at us. Luckily!

 

[Alzrius]

Fun fact, in the original manuscript that J. Eric Holmes turned over to Gary Gygax, there was no mention of the witch class, so sayeth the Zenopus Archives. Oddly, Gary himself is quoted there as saying that he had no intention of adding a witch class, and isn't sure how that mention got in there.

 

[James Gasik]

The Witch class willed itself into existence, and had to be put down with fire!

 

[RealAlHazred]

That first version of the witch was meant to be overpowered. If you read the article, the author meant for it to be used as an NPC only, and meant for them to be able to single-handedly take on entire parties. Which, keep in mind, this was the edition where the party might include 8 PCs and 14 hirelings...

 

[James Gasik]

Ah, so it's the "anti-Robilar" class.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Fun fact, in the original manuscript that J. Eric Holmes turned over to Gary Gygax, there was no mention of the witch class, so sayeth the Zenopus Archives. Oddly, Gary himself is quoted there as saying that he had no intention of adding a witch class, and isn't sure how that mention got in there.

One thing I have learned is that Gary's recollections, at different times, do not always match up with what the historical evidence shows. See, for example, his repeated forgetfulness on the subject of the Thief class. Or the Cleric.

IIRC, it's pretty well-established that the mentions of AD&D were inserted late into the process, and Holmes would not have put those in there. So ....

 

[James Gasik]

Selective memory is a wonderful gift!