D&D 5E A Mess of OP Characters (magic items, rest mechanics, etc.)

[Retreater]

At first I thought you were joking for the adventure not following those rules, but your next item makes me think you meant it... see Xanathar's Awarding Magic Items

Xanathar's "guidance" for magic item prices is woefully under baked. The amount of gold given out (even in standard, official 5e adventures) makes purchasing even the most potent magic items possible with pocket change.

Don't know the adventure (apart from reading the description), but I expected the majority of it to be in, well, a a tomb / pyramid. So do you not manage to get that many encounters in then? Worst case, make them bigger encounters (higher CR, more monsters) rather than more. I also thought there would be traps etc., The description sounded like it was meant to be challenging, so I am surprised it is such a cakewalk.

They haven't gotten to the tomb yet. So far it's dealing with cultists and mostly human adversaries. Even high level casters and warriors die in a single round.
I had 25 enemies on the board, including some high level casters. They could do nothing ... as worthless as goblins. Dead in one round. Got off one buff spell before death.

is he ? "Necropolis is designed for a party of 6–8 seasoned characters starting between 7th and 9th level and will challenge even the most experienced players."

Given the level range I assume we are talking about this one

I think Old School designers woefully underestimate what challenging means in 5e.
Honestly, I doubt the system works at all after 6th level or so. (My group hit the limit of challenge early due to its size.)

 

[Swarmkeeper]

At first I thought you were joking for the adventure not following those rules, but your next item makes me think you meant it... see Xanathar's Awarding Magic Items


DMG, the Magic Item Rarity table also has price ranges


Don't know the adventure (apart from reading the description), but I expected the majority of it to be in, well, a a tomb / pyramid. So do you not manage to get that many encounters in then? Worst case, make them bigger encounters (higher CR, more monsters) rather than more. I also thought there would be traps etc., The description sounded like it was meant to be challenging, so I am surprised it is such a cakewalk.

Nobody reads the DMG?

/ducks

 

[mamba]

Xanathar's "guidance" for magic item prices is woefully under baked.

we can discuss how good that guidance is, but your initial claim was "there's absolutely no guidance for this in 5e". That is what I was responding to

They haven't gotten to the tomb yet. So far it's dealing with cultists and mostly human adversaries. Even high level casters and warriors die in a single round.
I had 25 enemies on the board, including some high level casters. They could do nothing ... as worthless as goblins. Dead in one round. Got off one buff spell before death.

why on earth would they start with a buff if the fight is going so against them ?

I have no idea what those 25 enemies are, but I'd start with giving them legendary resistances, more HP, using higher CR enemies. Heck have them send in 50 cannon-fodder undead first and once the party has used up some of its resources, only then (and immediately after) have them show up with their real troops.

I think Old School designers woefully underestimate what challenging means in 5e.
Honestly, I doubt the system works at all after 6th level or so. (My group hit the limit of challenge early due to its size.)

Sounds like it, which is disappointing, esp. since they advertise it as challenging. Maybe they need to playtest it some more...

 

[Oofta]

Xanathar's "guidance" for magic item prices is woefully under baked. The amount of gold given out (even in standard, official 5e adventures) makes purchasing even the most potent magic items possible with pocket change.

Then hand out less gold.

They haven't gotten to the tomb yet. So far it's dealing with cultists and mostly human adversaries. Even high level casters and warriors die in a single round.
I had 25 enemies on the board, including some high level casters. They could do nothing ... as worthless as goblins. Dead in one round. Got off one buff spell before death.

Why did they all appear at once? How were they wiped out? Did they all appear in fireball formation in clear line of sight? If you march in fireball formation and only have 1 fight per day, of course the casters are going to go nova. So change your approach.

I think Old School designers woefully underestimate what challenging means in 5e.
Honestly, I doubt the system works at all after 6th level or so. (My group hit the limit of challenge early due to its size.)

I continue to challenge my group, they're 18th now. I have no problem challenging 20th level PCs in previous campaigns. Any module will have to be adjusted to your group, especially with a group like you have that is outside the standard default. It's not an issue with design or even the module if you aren't adjusting as appropriate, there's no limit to how difficult you can make encounters.

On the other hand it doesn't seem like you actually want advice since I, and others, have repeated similar things multiple times.

 

[Oofta]

On a side note, I created a price sheet for magic items for my home campaign. Some items aren't for sale, but for those that are I just made a table based on rarity.

Rarity	Consumable	Minor	Major
Common	50	100
Uncommon	150	300	500
Rare	2,000	4,000	15,000
Very Rare	15,000	25,000	40,000
Legendary	N/A

 

[gorice]

Having run a long game with with high-level characters, I thought I'd add my coppers.

First, the problems:

1. No, the CR system doesn't work at all after the first few levels, regardless of other factors.
2. 5e balancing assumes attrition of hit dice and spell slots, but the written rules and adventures struggle to force attrition to happen.
3. Casters are ludicrously powerful, and problem (2) makes this worse.

Next, some solutions that can work, in my experience:

1. Makes sure there is some time pressure, so that resting has a cost. Countdown clocks for bad things happening, wandering monster rolls, etc. Does the adventure have anything like this baked in? If you do use clocks and encounter rolls, make them public so that the players know they are under pressure. If you don't want to run every encounter, resolve it with a single attack roll for each character to see whether they take a hit or not (they can use a spell or something clever to avoid this).
2. If all else fails, ditch the CR system completely. I found that Giffyglyph's Monster Maker was simply better, especially for one-off, set-piece battles.

Fundamentally, 5e as written is dysfunctional, but once you accept that the emperor has no clothes, you can find ways to work around that.

 

[Krachek]

Back to basic.

you should have fun.
you should allow and work for players to have their fun too.
Twist, thorn, and shape the game to achieve it.

 

[Mort]

They haven't gotten to the tomb yet. So far it's dealing with cultists and mostly human adversaries. Even high level casters and warriors die in a single round.
I had 25 enemies on the board, including some high level casters. They could do nothing ... as worthless as goblins. Dead in one round. Got off one buff spell before death.

Are you saying the 6th level group of 7 "easily" took out a group of 25 non-mooks including multiple high level casters (so presumably 13+ level casters) without difficulty?

That's just head scratching to me! Multiple high level casters alone should be a challenge to a 6th level group - they have so many options!

Heck ONE high level caster played to the max will be very difficult for a 6th level group. For example, Improved invisibility and then some nice AoE is devastating (few groups stock see invisibility, especially all the time).

I think Old School designers woefully underestimate what challenging means in 5e.
Honestly, I doubt the system works at all after 6th level or so. (My group hit the limit of challenge early due to its size.)

6th level PCs can be competent sure, but they don't have NEAR the shenanigans higher level groups can bring to the table!

 

[Celebrim]

So if you have more players then your party's effective level has increased, generally by about +2 for every doubling. They may be 6th level, but in practice they are more like 8th level - maybe a bit more if you've overgeared them.

First, increase the difficulty of any encounters proportionally. If the fight calls for 4 ogres, then use 8. Make the rooms a bit bigger and spread out the foes to avoid area of effect damage. If the fight is against a single foe, it shouldn't be. Add 2-4 minions to every boss encounter if you can think of a suitable minion. So if the fight calls for a dragon, add a consort that is barely weaker than the original dragon. Or add 4 broodlings living with 'mom'. Or add 4 Troglodyte clerics of Tiamat as worshippers that have come to pay tribute. It's almost always better to add more foes than try to buff existing ones.

Second, stretch your tactical muscles. You are now authorized to make all fights as complicated as you can. Give the enemies cover and concealment. Add traps and obstacles between them and the PCs. Have part of the fight area unhallowed or in anti-magic fields. Give the enemies lair bonuses and lair moves - unleashing waves of boiling oil on the floor, dropping chandeliers from the ceiling by cutting ropes, knocking down stone pillars or whatever makes sense. Have complex multi-sided ambushes where the enemies bring in reinforcements in second or third rounds. Spread out to make sure area of effect attacks can't get the whole group. I seriously doubt you're running your foes in an optimal manner. Your players have asked you explicitly to step up to the challenge. Do not disappoint them.

Thirdly, slow down the gear for a while. Let them level up for a while with just the gear they have until you've restored gear balance.

 

[aco175]

I have been running the updated Against the Giants series in the Yawning Portal book and nobody revised the treasure in converting it (it seems), so I can see the Isle of Dread having the same problem being originally a 1e module. I literally give out 1/10th the coins and treasure except for some magic and cooler items.

I recall back in 1e/2e the DM having spells and portals that destroyed items or like in Tomb of Horrors just teleported you naked to another area without your stuff. Although my teenaged self would be terribly upset with the DM for doing this.