D&D 3E/3.5 A message to the 3.5ers

[Kunimatyu]

Could we agree to a moratorium on 3.5 grognardry in the 4th Editon forum?

At this point, WotC has sunk too much money into 4th to back out, so you're not going to be able to convince them to abandon 4e or even change it to be more like 3.5 used to be. (There are publishers you might be able to convince, but you'd be better off telling them directly via their forums and emails.)

Moreover, it seems like every single thread has a couple grognards grumbling about 4th edition and saying why they're sticking with 3.5, which is getting very old.

I'm not saying you have to be a "Wormwood", here -- you don't have to think most 4e changes are the Bestest Thing Evar to participate -- but there's a huge difference between not liking some element of 4e (for instance, I don't like a lot of the names and the fact that 50% of the PHB races are elven) and grumbling about the entire edifice altogether.

So, from all of us who are looking forward to 4e on some level, whether it's with mild enthusiasm or full-blown 4e sycophancy -- if you plan on sticking with 3.5 and have made that decision, please stop posting in the 4e forum.

 

[tenkar]

And here I thought we were going to give them cheese to go with their whine

This thread will fall on deaf ears... decent try but doomed to fail

Now if we had a forum for them to discuss why 4e sucks eggs so badly even though no one on these boards has seen, let alone played with the rules, they would be upset... there is no fun to stirring the pot if no one is watching

 

[olshanski]

If they want to have any say in how the new edition appears, either in fluff or mechanics, now is the time for them to say it.

If, after it is published, they are griping about it, then it is really just useless griping.

I think that any concerns, gripes, grumbles or any other negative statements here, as long as they are backed up with some sort of reasoning, are completely and entirely appropriate.

"4th Edition sux, I ain't buying it" is not a valid post.
"If all fighter end up with per-encounter abilities that are mechanically the same as wizards, and only different with flavor text, then I will not be buying 4th Edition and I'll stick with 3.5" is a very valid statement, and there is no reason for stifling it.

Perhaps some of these grognards might be saying things like "Dragon Tail Cut is a stupid name, I hope the rest of 4E ain't like that," seems like just pointless criticism to you, but It looks to me like some of those opinions and being heard at WoTC and weighed with some appropriate degree of concern.

 

[Kunimatyu]

If they want to have any say in how the new edition appears, either in fluff or mechanics, now is the time for them to say it.

If, after it is published, they are griping about it, then it is really just useless griping.

I think that any concerns, gripes, grumbles or any other negative statements here, as long as they are backed up with some sort of reasoning, are completely and entirely appropriate.

"4th Edition sux, I ain't buying it" is not a valid post.
"If all fighter end up with per-encounter abilities that are mechanically the same as wizards, and only different with flavor text, then I will not be buying 4th Edition and I'll stick with 3.5" is a very valid statement, and there is no reason for stifling it.

Perhaps some of these grognards might be saying things like "Dragon Tail Cut is a stupid name, I hope the rest of 4E ain't like that," seems like just pointless criticism to you, but It looks to me like some of those opinions and being heard at WoTC and weighed with some appropriate degree of concern.

I think I started that Dragon's Tail Cut thread, actually.

However, yes, you're correct -- responses like that are useful. Reponses from people who have already decided a priori that they're staying with 3.5e -- those people have no business posting in this forum anymore, because they're not discussing 4e in any useful sense.

 

[Vigilance]

For me, the issue isn't anything that people are saying.

It's seeing the same people, in 4e threads every day popping into threads to say "I'm not upgrading" or "why per encounter abilities" or "Wizards fired me as a customer!" or the ever popular "Paizo lost the license for this?!?!?"

I understood it after 2 weeks, but it's been two months.

Griefers suck.

 

[Cadfan]

I don't mind them saying their piece when they have something to say.

I do wish we could see the end of the posts that do nothing except proclaim personal intransigence. If you feel like WOTC "fired you as a customer" because they changed the default pantheon, or advanced the timeline in a campaign setting, then perhaps you're stretching to find reasons to complain.

And I wouldn't mind seeing the end of posts with fragmented logic. "Change X will break the game!!!" is a particularly unhelpful opinion without knowing the framework into which Change X is being placed, for example. Or posts which assume an almost malicious stupidity on behalf of WOTC, without any evidence. Chances are, if you looked at a WOTC staff blog post and immediately noticed that a new rule interacts poorly with an old rule, they noticed that too. Go ahead and post that fact, but don't insist that the game's doomed now until you know whether the old rule still exists. Otherwise you look like a twerp.

"Change X is bad if Rule Y from 3.5 still exists." = acceptable.
"Change X will DESTROY THE GAME because of Rule Y from 3.5!!!!!" = moronic.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I'll admit, I was hoping the first post in this thread would be:

GIT OFF MAH LAWN!

 

[Hairfoot]

I feel I reached a sort of zen state about this some time ago. If I don't like something, I won't use it or observe it. It's so easy I could weep.

If I don't like the system of 4E, there are plenty of good alternatives. If I don't like the canon, I'll make my own.

 

[Exen Trik]

Now if we had a forum for them to discuss why 4e sucks eggs so badly even though no one on these boards has seen, let alone played with the rules, they would be upset... there is no fun to stirring the pot if no one is watching

I can see it now: the Grognard Gazebo!

 

[Dragonblade]

I have no problem with critiquing elements of 4e.

I'm just tired of sanctimonious anti-4e posts that add nothing to a discussion.