A new spellcasting propsal

[Morrus]

Elements of Magic is a popular book - one of EN Publishing's most popular - but some folks have indicated that as a core magic system it may be a little complex.

Attached is a proposal for an alternate magic system. It's very bare-bones, but it's the other system I was considering from the start. Let me know your thoughts.

 

[Tashtego]

I prefer the Elements of Magic system. You've promised us a crunchy rule system with plenty of DIY mechanics for building things like space ships and strongholds. So it makes sense to have a DIY spell system that lets you build your own spells with plenty of flexibility. I'd like the EOM system to be explained more clearly, with more examples.

The new system reminds me of those spell lists from Rolemaster, which are static spells but there are enough quirky things in some of the lists for interesting things to happen. However, it's not clear how they're built from the ground-up; hence my preference for the EOM system.

 

[dekrass]

I definately prefer the elements of magic system.

 

[GMMichael]

I have no idea how the elements of magic system works.

Regarding the proposed system, however:

The guideline table works well for damaging/healing spells. But there are spells that can only be described in qualitative terms...

Why must a spellcaster be "fully rested" to regain spell points? Because the Vancian system says so?

Zero level spells are gained with a talent. How are the higher-level spells gained?

I will always be an opponent of "at-will" spells. To me, that leads only to high-magic campaigns, which are necessarily so complex that GMs have no choice but to dumb their settings down to Harry Potter levels.

Besides that, I like it!

 

[memman32]

First off, sorry for the long text. I swear my answer started out three sentences long and just morphed into this. Feel free to read the next two sentences and call that my answer.

I would tend to agree with tashtago. The elements of magic system is definitely the more appealing of the two choices.

However, its level of complexity does generate quite a learning curve and the need for a fertile imagination. Both of those issues can be overcome with a slew of examples for each list. That type of hand holding will mean adding more text to those sections in the manual, but the benefit of having such an innovative system outweighs the cost in time and energy (IMO).

I have spent three days reading OLD from "cover to cover" with probably half that time going through the magic system. It absolutely sparks ones imagination. However, I did find it somewhat difficult to place my spell ideas in the proper category.

This new spell list idea goes farther to create that context needed for someone to quickly apply their spell related ideas. If Joe Average wants to create a 5th level fire damage spell, then he looks up the chart and sees what the components of such a spell could look like.

In a perfect world I'd say both systems would merit space in the game manual. If only one can go in, then I'll take the one which I feel like provides the most flexibility.

I really can't wait to see how adventure writers add their creative juices to such a system. I expect to see more flavor than level after level of the same fireball with one d6 added to its damage.

Alright, this conversation has motivated me to go back and work my way through the magic system again.

 

[Morrus]

Allow me to present my thoughts on the above system.

When a GM needs to run a couple of monsters or NPCs with magical capabilities, the EoM system may be too much of a burden.

However a spell list system like this makes it easier. You know the monster's MAGIC attribute, so all you need is a couple of keywords which tell you which lists it knows.

So you have an ice dragon. Say it has MAGIC attribute of 8. And it has the cold and illusion spell lists noted in it's stat block. That's all you need - you have an instant suite of 16 thematically appropriate spells it can use.

So an NPC's spell capability can be described as:

MAGIC 6 (4d6) - plant, birds, healing.

That's a nature type with 18 spells, all thematically arranged and suited to the NPC. That short line communicates quite a range of information.

A necromancer might have:

MAGIC 8 (5d6) - undead, drain, compel, shadow

This guy has 32 spells available, all thematically appropriate and organised in ascending lists of power, all communicated via a single short line.

 

[Tashtego]

I still like to be able to build my own spells from the ground up. Maybe use both, have a quick NPC spell list for GMs, and the construction kit system for players who will really get a kick out of having all that customisation. Low magic versus high, or the lesser path versus the greater path etc.

 

[Tashtego]

Plus, I'm a big fan of the 4E stat block, which has everything you need in it, without having to look up a different list or particular spell. After running 4E for some time, I really enjoyed the approach of a different system for NPCs and monsters, than PCs.

 

[Morrus]

Plus, I'm a big fan of the 4E stat block, which has everything you need in it, without having to look up a different list or particular spell. After running 4E for some time, I really enjoyed the approach of a different system for NPCs and monsters, than PCs.

But then the EoM system is really inappropriate for your tastes! It's the most "looky-up" thing in both games combined!

 

[Tashtego]

In my imagination, I was visualising each statblock with all the info for the spell list on it, if EOM is used for everything e.g. 'Evoke Fire - 10d6 damage, blast 10' etc. Or, in the current system 'Lightning 3 - (10d6 blast 10 etc). No look-ups!

Each player would also be forced to write down what their spells can do during character creation to avoid look-ups during the game. Like with GURPS and Rolemaster - all the hard work is done during chargen and things go really smooth during play because the work's been one. The players wouldn't be flipping through the book figuring out how to build a new spell list in mid play.

(They would also stay in character, never forget their character sheets, always write beautifully articulate character journals, arrive on time for games, bring healthy snacks and never complain about bad dice rolls, but from here, we are straying away from imagination into sheer fancy here...)