A pseudo-scientific explanation of magic

[Andor]

Note if Magic existed. It would obey rules just like other sciences.

It need not. In most real world magical belief systems the mage doesn't do much himself. Instead he implores supernatural beings (whether you call them demons, fairies, gods, saints or loa does not much matter) to bring about his desired end, and whether they do or not is up to them. For a good read of such a world try 'The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump' by Harry Turtledove.

Alternately, in some belief systems where the mages powers are intrinsic to him, it is matter of personal enlightenment (no matter how universal the truths understood) and thus magic is individual because it is filtered through unique individuals.

That having been said, generic DnD magic looks dammed scientific to me.

 

[bolen]

I am afraid I have to disagree. Ok you summon a being and he does magic. There have to be laws for him or his summoned demon/angel/toad to obey (You say there dont but my puny brain can't understand what that means).

I think for a world to exist one has to set laws for it.

Of course this brings the old philosopher's question of "Can an all powerful being create an object which he can't lift"

 

[Andor]

I am afraid I have to disagree. Ok you summon a being and he does magic. There have to be laws for him or his summoned demon/angel/toad to obey (You say there dont but my puny brain can't understand what that means).

I think for a world to exist one has to set laws for it.

Of course this brings the old philosopher's question of "Can an all powerful being create an object which he can't lift"

There may well be laws that the beings you summon have to obey. But you might not know what they are and they may vary from being to being.

But the point is that magic, functionally, does not act in a perfectly consistant manner because at all levels it involves interations with willfull beings. Anything involving personalities is, at best, a soft science. Summon Abaraxathranus the morning after he had a hot date and he may do what ever you want due to his good mood. Summon him from the middle of that hot date and good luck.

To contribute something to the original idea, you can also have scientific magic based on an alternate cosmology. If, for example, the universe is composed of 5 elements, earth, water, wind, fire, and spirit, and each element had a corosponding humor in the body. The perhaps the mage trains himself to control his internal humors and then use that imbalance to effect the balance of elements in the world at large. A fun facet of that system might be the required lead time to alter your balance of humors. EG: You wish to cast an earth spell and so the day before you spend time in meditation and eating heavy foods to make yourself more phlegmatic. Then for that next day you have power over earth, but not the other elements.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Note if Magic existed. It would obey rules just like other sciences.

That depends greatly on what the world is, doesn't it?

What if the universe is nothing but the dream of a sleeping god? What rules are there to follow but the vagaries of a divine subconscious? In such a universe, changing the boiling temperature of water from 100 C to 10 C (transiently OR permanently) might need nothing more than fast talking in the ear of said god for a couple seconds.

A universe as we assume this one is requires rules. But then, we're still flying by the seat of our pants. Every time someone thinks they've figured out a rule, some quantum physicist comes along and rains on their parade, anyway. Right now, there are some rules, that will probably be superceded by different ones in 50 years or so. It's merely an assumption on our part that it's rules all the way down.

Granted, I think it's a pretty good assumption, or I wouldn't be able to do what I do for a living, but it's still an assumption.

 

[The_Universe]

What if the universe is nothing but the dream of a sleeping god?

WHAT!!?

 

[radferth]

What if the universe is nothing but the dream of a sleeping god?

It is in my campaign (or the prime plane, at least). But that's a whole 'nother topic.

I ususally use the Time Bandits explanation for the existance of magic. To be more specific, the universe (not The Universe, but then you never know) is not as well-constructed as most would think. If you understand a specific flaw well enough, you can create magical effects. I guess The Matrix would be a more current example, but that involves flaws in a computer program rather than reality itself.

 

[Yair]

WHAT!!?

Calm down, The_Universe, he didn't mean that personaly

Actually, Canis, that is a cool option I really like. Reminds me of a cosmology I did once, based on Hindu mythology, although that was based on enlightment and understanding you are god rather than changing god's will.

I strongly disagree about science being subject to change. No significant physical fact (as opposed to physical theory!) has been disproved, ever - rules are refined, not thrown out without concern for complimentarity. And, for that matter, no quantum physicist has been able to dispute a fundumental physical theory for about 30 years (well, except a small refinement some 7 years ago).

And about magic being science in the fantasy world - I don't believe that is the kind of pseudoscience the original poster wanted. And I agree with Andor that magic CAN be based will and hence unscientific, but in a roleplaying game it usually ain't.

 

[Zappo]

WHAT!!?

Let's put it another way. Chances are you've seen The Matrix. Picture something similar, except that the system is good enough that there is no way to become disconnected from the Matrix, and no way to become aware of it. Now you've got a universe which is entirely controlled by a superintelligent computer program. Most of the time, it follows a set of laws. But the controlling program can violate any of these laws at will, creating arbitrary effects in the world. And, while we design computer programs to be predictable and follow rules, they don't actually need to do so. Quantistic random number generators capable of providing true randomness are already available. Or the program could have more instructions than there are atoms in the simulated world, and be theoretically impossible to understand by beings within the Matrix. Neither assumption is unreasonable (at least, not more unreasonable than using humans as batteries in place of cows - The Mootrix).

Now take away technology and say the program is A Sleeping God, and you've got Canis' hypothesis.

 

[The_Universe]

Calm down, The_Universe, he didn't mean that personaly

You mean there's *another* Universe? You've just blown my mind. Prepare for reality to collapse in 3...2...1....

 

[The_Universe]

Let's put it another way. Chances are you've seen The Matrix. Picture something similar, except that the system is good enough that there is no way to become disconnected from the Matrix, and no way to become aware of it. Now you've got a universe which is entirely controlled by a superintelligent computer program. Most of the time, it follows a set of laws. But the controlling program can violate any of these laws at will, creating arbitrary effects in the world. And, while we design computer programs to be predictable and follow rules, they don't actually need to do so. Quantistic random number generators capable of providing true randomness are already available. Or the program could have more instructions than there are atoms in the simulated world, and be theoretically impossible to understand by beings within the Matrix. Neither assumption is unreasonable (at least, not more unreasonable than using humans as batteries in place of cows - The Mootrix).

Now take away technology and say the program is A Sleeping God, and you've got Canis' hypothesis.

No, see - I get it...It was a joke...based on my screen-name....hahahahah.....you with me?

I actually think the "dream of a sleeping god" thing is pretty cool, and it's an interesting (but not the only) way to explain hindu theology to a westerner like myself.

Another way I've heard it done is to say that god is an actor - one so good that he's fooled himself into believing he doesn't exist. We're all playing parts in what's essentially a cosmic "Whose Line is it Anyway" and the point of the game is to get each player to remember that *they are god.* Once everyone figures that out, the game ends, and god starts a new one. I hope it's "Three Headed Broadway Star" but I can't imagine what kind of cosmology *that* would produce...