a Question from a Player

[Venport]

Don't you just love these?

He is asking about deepwarden Prc From Stone.

http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=4

Do you get your Con ac bonus past the max dex for armor?

For example if you are wearing armor that only allows a +1 dex and you have a +2 for con do you get +2 to AC or +1???

any ideas?

 

[werk]

It looks to me like it should be treated exactly like a Dex bonus in all regards, but it doesn't state that.

good question for customer service.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I agree with werk on all counts. Good job, werk.

 

[reveal]

Don't you just love these?

He is asking about deepwarden Prc From Stone.

http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=4

Do you get your Con ac bonus past the max dex for armor?

For example if you are wearing armor that only allows a +1 dex and you have a +2 for con do you get +2 to AC or +1???

any ideas?

The armor has a max Dex bonus, not a max "anything else" bonus. Just because it states you lose the Con bonus if you lose your Dex bonus does not mean that Dex = Con. I say that the Dwarf, in your example, would get the whole +2 to AC from his Con.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Well, obviously the armor only has a max Dex bonus because it can't possibly deal with a max cabbage bonus from some third party source developed years later. So, the question must focus on the description of the Stone Warden extraordinary ability. The only relevant sentence that explains the ability is: "He adds his Constitution bonus to AC instead of his Dexterity, if the character's Constitution bonus is higher." So, if the Con bonus is not limited, you get the odd case when, say, the Dex bonus is equal or higher but the character is wearing full plate. Say, the Dex is 16 and the Con is 14, and he's wearing full plate (no other AC bonuses). His AC is 19 (because he uses the Dex bonus, which is limited). Give him 3 points of Dex drain, however, and now his AC is 20 (because he uses the Con bonus). It gets even odder when you consider the case where he has a Dex of 10 and a Con of 14 and he gets hit with a cat's grace spell. That cat's grace spell drops his AC by 1 point (2 points if was wearing half-plate for example).

It's ambiguous, yes, but I'd rule it such that the Con bonus works equivalently to the Dex bonus in all cases, that way, you don't even have to worry about the case where the two bonuses are identical.

 

[reveal]

Well, obviously the armor only has a max Dex bonus because it can't possibly deal with a max cabbage bonus from some third party source developed years later. So, the question must focus on the description of the Stone Warden extraordinary ability. The only relevant sentence that explains the ability is: "He adds his Constitution bonus to AC instead of his Dexterity, if the character's Constitution bonus is higher." So, if the Con bonus is not limited, you get the odd case when, say, the Dex bonus is equal or higher but the character is wearing full plate. Say, the Dex is 16 and the Con is 14, and he's wearing full plate (no other AC bonuses). His AC is 19 (because he uses the Dex bonus, which is limited). Give him 3 points of Dex drain, however, and now his AC is 20 (because he uses the Con bonus). It gets even odder when you consider the case where he has a Dex of 10 and a Con of 14 and he gets hit with a cat's grace spell. That cat's grace spell drops his AC by 1 point (2 points if was wearing half-plate for example).

It's ambiguous, yes, but I'd rule it such that the Con bonus works equivalently to the Dex bonus in all cases, that way, you don't even have to worry about the case where the two bonuses are identical.

Ah... I completely misread it.

For reason, I read it as adding his Con bonus to his armor, not his Dex bonus being replaced by Con. I would agree, then, to treat it like Dex. Another poorly worded "something" from WotC (which, unfortunately, I'm finding more and more of in equipment descriptions, spells, abilities, etc. ).

 

[Infiniti2000]

Another comment: If you do allow the Con to be unlimited by the Max Dex bonus, I would change the ability to ONLY use the Con bonus and NEVER the Dex bonus. That way, you don't get those really screwed-up scenarios I mentioned.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Would he never loose Con bonus from being flat-footed? Stunned? Unconcious? Feinted?

 

[Hypersmurf]

The only relevant sentence that explains the ability is: "He adds his Constitution bonus to AC instead of his Dexterity, if the character's Constitution bonus is higher."

Well, one point to consider is that the first clause is incomplete.

You don't add your Dexterity to AC. So there is something left to be implicitly understood in the first clause.

Does it really mean to say "He adds his Constitution bonus to AC instead of his Dexterity bonus"? Or does it really mean to say "He adds his Constitution bonus to AC instead of his Dexterity bonus to AC"?

A character in full plate with a Dexterity of 18 has a Dexterity bonus of +4, but a Dexterity bonus to AC of +1.

His Con bonus of +2 is higher than his Dexterity bonus to AC, but it is not higher than his Dexterity bonus.

So depending on which value the Con bonus is compared to, it either applies or does not apply to the AC of this particular Deepwarden.

-Hyp.

 

[Venport]

Yep

Yep that's what i was thinking when i posted it i just thought that i would get some other opinions...thanks