A quick question on Undead rage (or lack thereof)

[Three_Haligonians]

Hey!

Does the rage ability (and variants of it like frenzy) become useless for Undead? Since undead have no Con score, one who rages can't benefit from the Con increase. In fact they shouldn't get any benefit at all since a rage lasts in accordance to the character's Con modifier, and since not having an ability equates to a modifier of 0, their "rage" ends as soon as it starts?

Have I missed something in the vast sea of rulesFAQ's, updates, errata and such?

J from Three Haligonians

 

[Sir Brennen]

Use CHA

Undead use their CHA bonus in place of any ability normally based on CON. Check out the Undead type in the Monster Manual glossary.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

hmmm

You mean where it says they use their Cha modifier for Concentration checks?



J from Three Haligonians

 

[Khayman]

Nice sig --- gotta love Stan Rogers.

I'm not certain, but I think that an undead in the throes of barbarian rage would use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution to determine the length of the rage. The bonus to Str should still apply, but obviously not Con. As rage results in an unnamed bonus to the ability scores and not a morale bonus, the barbarian should still gain some benefit from it regardless of being undead or not.

Maybe whip up a feat to allow undead barbarians a hp bonus while raging?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

An Undead can rage for a number of rounds equal to "3 + the character’s (newly improved) Constitution modifier."

So, even without any other rules, an Undead can rage for 3 rounds.

As Sir Brennan pointed out, Undead use their Cha modifier in place of Con modifiers where appropriate. Note that a Raging Undead does not gain any additional rounds of rage from their Con boost, unlike a living barbarian, because that bonus is wasted.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Ah

An Undead can rage for a number of rounds equal to "3 + the character’s (newly improved) Constitution modifier."

So, even without any other rules, an Undead can rage for 3 rounds.

*smacks his forehead*

I cannot believe I forgot about the "base 3 rounds". Sheesh.

As Sir Brennan pointed out, Undead use their Cha modifier in place of Con modifiers where appropriate. Note that a Raging Undead does not gain any additional rounds of rage from their Con boost, unlike a living barbarian, because that bonus is wasted.

But the only thing it states is what I stated above.. so by the RAW it only uses Cha for concentration checks... where does it say to switch for eveything?

J from Three Haligonians

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

But the only thing it states is what I stated above.. so by the RAW it only uses Cha for concentration checks... where does it say to switch for eveything?

Good question. I coulda sworn I read it somewhere ... Libris Mortis, perhaps?

 

[Khayman]

Even if it lasts only 3 rounds, at least they don't have to worry about fatigue.

 

[Sir Brennen]

It's right... ummm ... somewhere

Well, this is from the Main FAQ, under a question about disease:

Special attacks that involve supernatural diseases often use Constitution to determine the save DC as well. In some cases the creature or the disease might warrant using a different ability score. A mummy’s mummy rot, for example, uses Charisma instead of Constitution because undead creatures lack Constitution scores

So, there's another example. Though I'm sure that somewhere I've read it stated explicitly, and I thought as part of the Core Rules, not Libris Mortis or the like.

 

[Tonguez]

Think of the image (from Ghostbuster, Indy Jones and the RotLA et al) when the ghost who has been haunting the room suddenly turns around and its face transforms into a visage of horror and it leaps forward to attack - that sounds like an undead rage to me and lasting 3 rounds sound about right for it too...