A real two-bladed sword!

[jasper]

NO NO NO. It a batlef it chops up federations and Klingons like chop suey. Ok if the weapon and Klingons were such uber warrior how come 50+ year old fake hair Kirk could kick their butt. hmm I guess most of them were first level npc mooks.

 

[Imperialus]

One other major problem I would see with a two bladed sword other than the difficulty using it is the thing would break at midpoint on the handle all the time. It would be next to impossible useing metal working techniques of the period to create a full tang through the haft and the lack of re-enforcement would cause it to snap.

With an overall lenght of 34 inches I'm reminded of that scene in Robin Hood Men in Tights where Robin Hood fights Little John and the quarter staffs keep breaking.

 

[BrooklynKnight]

Bat'leth, and I'm no fanboy!

 

[Krieg]

Bat'leth, and I'm no fanboy!

Hmm, isn't there a picture floating around somewhere that suggests otherwise.

 

[Drifter Bob]

BTW, I have seen double-pointed spears and daggers (as well as 3 pointed katars- think of a "T" with all points sharpened and a handle in the middle of the crossbar) in armories, so its possible that someone may have made a double sword out there.

Oh my god

Plus there is the problem of reach and the possibility of cutting yourself.

You mean the certainty of cutting yourself.

My guess, if such an archaic weapon actually exists, it was more likely to be of European design than Asian, based on the types of steel used by those artisans.

Give me a break. I can assure you, no, nothing like that existed. This is an idiotic toy inspired by one of the most idiotic new weapons included in 3E D&D, now manufactured by unscrupulous companies (in china, probably) for idiots to play with and hopefully hurt themselves.


This is exactly why I rail against the Disney-Dark ages / Hanna Barbarian strain in D&D. And don't give me crap about red dragons either. If it was some kind of free form free pure spirited fantasy game there wouldn't be all those detailed weapon rules to begin with.

Anyone who thinks this is a good weapon or in any way real, I encourage to immediately buy it and begin intensive training, or better yet, sparring. I love these claims to have done parries with this thing, that I would LOVE to see, it would be pretty dangerous to parry a nerf foam bat with this from the likelyhood of cutting yourself alone. If you parried anything more substantial, like say, a broomstick, the cheap steel on most of these fake swords would undoubtedly snap.

Again, I encourage you try some full speed trials, find a like minded friend and go at it. Please video tape for the benefit of the rest of us and send to Darwin Awards.


DB

 

[Drifter Bob]

Brevity has its merits...

Still, a well researched reply. Nice to see another WMA guy on here!

I agree with you two but I think ARMA carries the 'no edge parry' thing to an extreme. The German masters said (I think Meyer says this quoting earlier masters) there were three levels of defense, the greatest level is to use master cuts ('miesterhau') to cut through your opponents line of attack while you cut them, the second level is to parry (or void, or deflect, or beat or bind or rediirect) and counter, and the third and lowest level is to merely parry without regaining initiative.

Nevertheless, if you have done a lot of sparring, nobody wins 100% of their fights with 100% master cuts or even brilliant voids and counters. It's a bad thing to take a blow on your blade and nick it, but if you have ever seen a test cutting demonstration with a real sword you know it's a VERY bad thing to take a blow on your body!

Also, there are masters who advocate edge parries at least in certain circumstances, I could look up a few quotes if you don't believe that. It's always hard to interpret precisely what was meant in those fechtbuchs.

My personal belief is that the void, the beat, the bind, the master cut are all excellent tools, and even static parries when done should be taken at an angle, with some effort at deflection, whenever possible. But sometimes if all you can do is parry edge on, or if that is what happened when you were trying to do something else, so be it. Have a look at any live steel sword anyone including the most hard core ARMA guy has used in sparring, you'll find they are always nicked up. It's going to happen a certain percentage of the time if your first priority is not getting hit.


DB

(I'm happy to parry a strike with my pommel sometimes if thats what happens, it's better than not parrying!)

 

[Horishijin]

Also, there are masters who advocate edge parries at least in certain circumstances, I could look up a few quotes if you don't believe that. It's always hard to interpret precisely what was meant in those fechtbuchs.

I'm not into cults of personality, hence I am not an ARMA member. That being said, Clements has thrown down the gauntlet on this one and challenges anyone to produce a medieval or Renaissance source describing or depicting an edge on edge parry. I should be interested to see how John responds to such a source.

Fechtbuchs are funny things, and sometimes I wonder if they truly depict the fighting style of the time as it was actually used, or whether it is an idealized version that the master in question is trying to popularize?

My personal belief is that the void, the beat, the bind, the master cut are all excellent tools, and even static parries when done should be taken at an angle, with some effort at deflection, whenever possible. But sometimes if all you can do is parry edge on, or if that is what happened when you were trying to do something else, so be it. Have a look at any live steel sword anyone including the most hard core ARMA guy has used in sparring, you'll find they are always nicked up. It's going to happen a certain percentage of the time if your first priority is not getting hit.

All agreed, the original point of this was to refute the point of herald who said "You NEVER, EVER, parry with the flat of the blade."

We study pretty much Ringeck/Liechtenauer style here. Some other places seem to emphasize Fiore; although unlike the AEMMA, I believe that his work pretty much only shows closing tactics, and is not a complete system.

Hey, shouldn't you have evacuated by now? Or does the idea of seeing alligators and water mocasins cruising down Bourbon Street amuse you as much as it amuses me?

 

[Drifter Bob]

Hey, shouldn't you have evacuated by now? Or does the idea of seeing alligators and water mocasins cruising down Bourbon Street amuse you as much as it amuses me?

Thanks for the concern

Actually, we have the house boarded up and are waiting till the last minute. We were going to leave last night but the storm looks like it's going to nail the Mississippi / Alabama border right now which would leave us fairly intact here... (though the odd alligator may go flying by my window) I've been up all night watching the storm track and playing chicken with Ivan. We may bail out in an hour or two dependeing on if it turn East like it's supposed to or not....

Otherwise I'll be on my way to the "vagabond Inn" in Hot Springs Arkansas with my girlfriend, my three cats, and of course my swords

DB

 

[olethros]

A twin-bladed sword would mainly be used like a European quarterstaff, with some Asian stuff thrown in for good measure,

Speaking of Asian stuff....I always imagined it using techniques similar to those used when wielding the Kwan Do/Guan Dao. One end is used for the majority of the poking and slashing, while the other end is used for stabbing and the like. Basically, the user will favor one end over the other and the hand will grasp it with the thumbs both facing forward.

A picture: http://www.wahlumdenver.com/images/Weapons/kwan do.JPG

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Hmm, isn't there a picture floating around somewhere that suggests otherwise

*cough*

*cough*