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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5914306" data-attributes="member: 87792">The problem here is that you aren't making either the high magic or the low magic fans happy.  I'm suggesting switches and options that allow you to pick the height of magic in your game.  You can have wizards in the game without at will abilities - which means that the high magic fans won't be happy.  And you have wizards with a pile of effective and choosable magic with very little cost or drawback.  Which means low magic fans won't be happy.As compromises go, it might have the benefit of appealing to no one.  Except that it's not appealing to no one, it's appealing to the Traditionalists.  This isn't a compromise.A compromise would at the very least be to allow wizards to trade out their at will spells for an extra couple of low level spells.  And then giving the DM control of that switch.I wasn't saying ban all spellcasters.  I explicitely mentioned leaving the bard as a caster.  What I said was ban all primary casters if you want to make a low magic game.There are times in 3.X where magic is quite literally "Use it or lose it" thanks to the magical recharge systems.  That's an even cheaper cost than free.The wizard is not, has never been, and will never be a genuine low magic class.  Now you can allow the Vancian wizard without at wills on the grounds of Tradition.  But for low magic, magic needs to have a genuine cost or to be genuinely rare.  Not something that a class gets a dump truck full of every day with only a token cost and that are their primary rather than their reserve means of problem solving.Wizard classes in low magic games look more like WFRP (2e or 3e) or DCC classes - magic being unpredictable and having blowback.  Or ritual casters.  Or even 3.X bards where even the casters will use their non-magical skills before breaking out the magic - because in many cases the magic is best used to supplement rather than replace the mundane, and the effects aren't objectively that powerful.  Or 4.X ritualists where you pay time and money rather than simply six seconds at the point of need to cast just about any spell.It fails to make the wizard a high magic class and fails to make it a low magic one.  The only people this would keep happy are those looking for Traditional D&D Magic.  It's easy, it's not fair, and it would be unlikely to be accepted IMO</blockquote>

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