A request for input on the FR Nations and their relative strength

[Edena_of_Neith]

I am seeking your input on issues relating to the Forgotten Realms.
I am attempting to make a comprehensive list of everything that could be considered a Power in the Realms.
I am attempting to do a comparative rating of one Power versus another.
I am also attempting to find out just what all the Powers ARE in FR ... there are truly many, and some are obscure.

For example, if asked for a list of the strongest Powers in Faerun, I might say:

Strongest: Halruaa (Power Level 100)
2nd Strongest: Evermeet (90)
3rd Strongest: Dambrath (85)
#4: Candlekeep (84)
#5: The Phaerimm of Anauroch (83)
#6: Aglarond (57)
#7: Waterdeep (55)
#8: The Shade (54)
#9: Thay (48)
#10: Luruar (45)
#11: Calimsham (43)
#12: Mulhorand (38)
#13: Var the Golden (36)
#14: Zhentil Keep / Zhentarim (35)
#15: Rasheman (34)
#16: Nimbral (32)
#17: Amn (28)
#18: Sembia (25)
#19: Mulmaster (23)
#20: Shadowdale (20)
#21: Thesk (19)
#22: Dwarves of the Great Rift (17)
#23: Menzoberranzan (16)
#24: Larloch / Necropolis (15)
#25: Westgate / Night Masks (8)
#26: Tethyr (7)
#27: Beholders of the Lake of Steam (7)
#28: Baldur's Gate (6)
#29: Cormyr (6)
#30: Luskan (5)
#31: Evereska (5)
#32: Chessenta (4)
#33: Unther (4)
#34: Lantan (4)
#35: Raven's Bluff (3)
#36: Hillsfar? (3)
#37: The United Peoples of the Moonshaes (3)
#38: Luiren (2)
#39: Neverwinter (2)
#40: Chondath (2)

Then again, I probably would be wrong.
The list is not complete.
And my Power Levels are not correct.

So, what is the complete list?
And, what are the correct Power Levels?

 

[Alzrius]

I might be completely wrong here...but this seems rather difficult to do, at least the way you're looking at it.

There is no power ranking (that I've heard of anyway) for various nations. What's more, attempting to create such a rating would (to a degree) be rather hard to do and subject to interpretation. Whiel some nations are obviously stronger than others, the listing of why, and the grouping of it into a numerical ranking, would be a monumentally difficult undertaking. For the most part, the flavor descriptions in most products, such as the FRCS, seem to be enough.

Sorry if I'm coming down on your idea Edena, just my take on it.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I agree that assigning a power ranking to the nations of FR (not to mention Larloch and the Night Masks, etc.) would be difficult.

However, I am asking for just that: your opinion on what level of comparative power these guys have versus each other?
I use a base of 100 (Halruaa's Power Level 100) for the sake of convenience. Use any number you want. I just want your opinion.

Take into account EVERYTHING that comes to mind, except for the direct intervention of Dieties.
Take into account military strength, magical strength, trade, diplomacy, Chosen status, secrecy, special abilities, monster abilities, natural terrain factors ... anything you feel makes a difference!

 

[Bugbear]

Very difficult indeed. Most "nations" in the Forgotten Realms are not really nations at all, just various communites surrounded by wilderness. For example outside of say a days ride of Silverymoon, The region is controlled not my the union of the Silver Marches, but by various humaniods.

Even in say Cormyr (which probibly comes the closest to being an actual nation) any thing beyond two or three days outside a major city is controlled only in name.

therefore you couldn't use the size of a region to determine it's power level. Perhaps if you used the population of a region as the base line to start. Then figure in any powerful npcs who call the region home.

You would also need to figure out the relative power of various churches and cults to each other, as well as other organizations. and then determine the amount of influence that each church and organization exerts in a given region. (You may want to figure organizations themselves as regions of there own, with there own "Power Level")

Once you have all of that, you will have a reference for comparing the relitive power and influence that one nation may have over another.

But then again, I just got done DMing a eight hour session, so I may just be talking out my butt.

~Bugbear

 

[Limper]

Thay has a HUGE army and lots of Wizards... although factional I'd have to rate them higher.

Mulhorand was a sleeping gargantuan before it started to wake its a real powerhouse now.

Halrua is powerful but not #1.

#19 do you mean Mulmaster?

 

[Darkness]

/me sees than next IR coming.

I agree with Limper about Halruaa.

BTW, why do you rate Candlekeep so high?

Further...
Thay is much stronger than Waterdeep. (And Calimshan might be as well, depending on how you define "Calimshan.")

Westgate - Night Masks or not - stronger than Cormyr? I don't think so. And the same goes for Shadowdale (or do you include all the other Dales - except for the "evil" ones - in that entry as well?).

Menzoberranzan is weaker. Also, there are more powerful drow cities that aren't even on the list...

Anyway, I think it would be helpful to list the relative advantages and disadvantages, as well as the size of the population of every entry. (e.g., Shadowdale - pop. 14,000; Elminster, Storm, the ghost of Sylune)
Otherwise, it's just too hard to tell.

 

[Victim]

Last time I checked, Cormyr was probably the closest thing to an actual nation state in the realms. It has a national identity, a good sized professional standing army, and integrates wizards into its military. While it lacks the heavy hitting super NPCs of other regions, it's going to be tough to beat in terms of actual national resources. It's probably more like 50 or 60. Of course, I'm not completely up to date on recent developments.

Aglarond is only on map because one of the 7 sisters lives there. It really has no importance aside from the fact the Simbul kills Thayan wizards.

Candlekeep isn't even a city. While it has significant defenses, it could be safely ignored. There's no way it's #4, unless everyone is overcome with the mad compulsion to raze the place, instead of paying lots of money and copying whatever stuff you want in the place.

The Shades should rate much higher too. The rulers match up pretty well against the 7 sisters, and haven't dispersed themselves across the globe. Plus they're nasty and agressive too. IIRC, the Shades have decent cohesion too, since the people are the inheritors of Nethril. Once they grab some decent territory, the shades would probably be a nation state too.

Halruaa and Evermeet have isolated themselves. Maybe they're powerful, but it's irrelevant because they have no importance. Also, I've always felt the power of Halruan wizards to be exaggerated by distance. For example, their vaunted Skyships have trouble with windstorms and altitude - and airships are deathtraps even with wardings against fire and such. The overall power of Halruaa is going to be less than that of Nethril. The shades will be tougher on a per capita basis, and are poised to expand rapidly.

 

[Anabstercorian]

I'm really not an expert on the subject, but it seems to me that the Chosen of Mystra, being composed largely of Epic Level Wizards with huge resources and political clout, may be well on the list of high level powers, on par with some of the larger nations such as Sembia.

 

[boothbey]

I would put Thay above Aglarond.

Granted Thay can't conquer Aglarond, they do have more far reaching power. Especially with the economic impact of the Thayan Enclaves that are springing up.

And aren't the Shades whooping up on the Phaerimn in Aunaroch?

 

[Volaran]

Hey Edena

I'm not really sure I can help out here in terms of deciding things. There are obvious power houses in the realms, but I don't think everything can be raterd in an x > y manner.

That said, I thought I'd mention that Neverwinter is part of the Silver Marches, and probably shouldn't have a seperate listing.