A Rule for Everything?

[HinterWelt]

So, a different thread just made my jaw drop. I know that there are gamers out there that truly need and desire a rule for all minutae in a game but I just did not think it went this far.

The way I look at a game, and I acknowledge this to be very subjective, is that all I truly need rules for are various resolutions of situations. Don't get hung up on semantics, I embrace a wide range of interpretation of that sentence. Essentially, you need a means to define how things get done. This might be spending points in a diceless game or rolling dice in a more traditional RPG but it comes down to getting from point A to point B in order to accomplish my goals while I play out the role I have chosen for my character.

The question I feel almost silly asking is, do you feel you need "meta" rules for your character? For example, a rule that tells you you are doing this for that reason and some kind of stick within the system to make sure you abide by you meta rule. If I want to play the role of a bastard who then has a change of heart I do not want to reference half a dozen rules in order to do so nor face a penalty for doing so (short of betraying a god or the like). I am not just talking alignment for a paladin, I can live with that. I am talking about rules for behavior of your character.

hmm, a bit more ranty than initially intended but hopefully got the question across.

Bill

 

[Frostmarrow]

Meta-rules as you call them help to anchor the idea in the game. If you simply change your character from this to that without repercussions some people find that flimsy. Too much flimsy and the game becomes silly and breaks down. However, if the GM keeps the integrity of the game it works out anyway.

So it boils down to this: If you have/are a great GM you might not need meta-rules. Such GM's are rare of course so meta-rules have a place in most campaigns.

I like the free-wheeling of our current campaign but somehow my character is stuck. I don't know how to progress and evolve because the game lacks such rules. So, I'm left with what the GM offers me or I can ask for it myself and let the GM decide. In this moment of time I'm longing for some hard fast rules to cling on to, since I'm not one for begging and the GM spends his attention elsewhere.

 

[Li Shenron]

The question I feel almost silly asking is, do you feel you need "meta" rules for your character? For example, a rule that tells you you are doing this for that reason and some kind of stick within the system to make sure you abide by you meta rule. If I want to play the role of a bastard who then has a change of heart I do not want to reference half a dozen rules in order to do so nor face a penalty for doing so (short of betraying a god or the like). I am not just talking alignment for a paladin, I can live with that. I am talking about rules for behavior of your character.

I'm not sure to understand what you really mean... Alignment could be seen as a sort of meta-rule, because it often makes your character choose certain courses of action rather than others.

Since I started DMing, I've always enforced the idea that the player has free will over the PC, so alignment definitely should not be a strict "rule" IMC, it is often however a good guide for consistency.

Of course changes of heart can happen and should happen now and then, somtimes slowly and sometimes dramatically, but if the majority of one's characters have changes of heart, of if a PC has 3-4 changes of heart in short succession, that's usually because that player is simply playing the opportunist character all the time.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'm not entirely sure I understand the concept. A paladin's code does not in any way dictate the paladin's behavior. It merely sets up penalties for certain kinds of behavior, in the same way that any fraternity might. Save that because the paladin fraternity is divine in nature, breaking its code carries significant penalties. Still, the character is free to behave as he will.

Are you referring to something along the lines of, "You are a bastard, so every time you see a woman you have to make a Will Save, DC 23, to avoid saying something sexist"? Rules to actually define character behavior and action?

I've never, and doubt I ever will, use such rules. However, I can see how some might enjoy them. It merely incorporates random chance into the non-combat encounters, as it's already incorporated into the combat encounters. It might also get players to role-play out scenes they may not normally have chosen on their own (such as the above.) Expand their horizons, as it were.

Or did you mean something else?

 

[HinterWelt]

I'm not sure to understand what you really mean... Alignment could be seen as a sort of meta-rule, because it often makes your character choose certain courses of action rather than others.

Since I started DMing, I've always enforced the idea that the player has free will over the PC, so alignment definitely should not be a strict "rule" IMC, it is often however a good guide for consistency.

Of course changes of heart can happen and should happen now and then, somtimes slowly and sometimes dramatically, but if the majority of one's characters have changes of heart, of if a PC has 3-4 changes of heart in short succession, that's usually because that player is simply playing the opportunist character all the time.

Well, to me, aligniment is more of a definition. A reference for the GM and player to be able to understand where the character is coming from. What I am shooting for are rules where your character must abide by this behavior or be punished. Much like a paladins and their alignment although that one seems overdone.

I just have seen games that try to build mechanics in that dictate the creation of character persona. I prefer to vreate my own. I just wonder how alone I am in that. It sonds like there are people who really want that kind of guidance. Color me suprised.

Bill

 

[mythusmage]

The question I feel almost silly asking is, do you feel you need "meta" rules for your character? For example, a rule that tells you you are doing this for that reason and some kind of stick within the system to make sure you abide by your meta rule. (snip)

That sort of thing I'm very much against. I much prefer that such matters be handled in-game, instead of through meta-gaming. Your character acts inconsistently, then those who know him, NPC and PC, are the ones to handle the matter. Instead of a rule saying your character suffers a -2 to all die rolls for being kind and generous when he's supposed to be mean and stingy, it is the people he deals with in the game's setting that treat him with suspicion because he's not behaving as they expect. In my considered opinion a character's behavior should be handled in the setting by the inhabitants of that setting.

So instead of a rule saying that a paladin who breaks his word (regardless of circumstance) suffers a -6 on all diplomacy and leadership rolls, a paladin who breaks his word would soon gain a reputation as an unreliable person, and the people who deal with him will treat him with suspicion.

To sum up, I much rather a system not use rules to govern what should really be handled in the setting itself.

 

[HinterWelt]

To sum up, I much rather a system not use rules to govern what should really be handled in the setting itself.

To put my point in these terms, I would rather the player of the character deal with such breaks. Failing that, the group the character is playeing with and finally the GM. But that is my happy-happy world solution...or the group I play with.

Bill

 

[Lord Pendragon]

What I am shooting for are rules where your character must abide by this behavior or be punished.

Ah. Well then, I can answer you with a resounding no. I would never play under such rules.

It sonds like there are people who really want that kind of guidance. Color me suprised.

Me too. What exactly are you basing this on? What was the thread that led you to this conclusion?

 

[diaglo]

i don't want rules for going to the loo.
or how many bites it takes to chew my dinner.
or if i will get shat on by a bird flying overhead.

but of the rules that are in place i find some of them to be fairly broken when reality sets in... like just how a lvl 1 commoner would ever even make a scratch on a wall of a cave while mining using standard equipment. yet we all know it does work.

 

[philreed]

or if i will get shat on by a bird flying overhead.

I sense a new spell . . .