A Shark Inspired Post: Agricultural Magic in the Dragon Earth Roman Empire

[mythusmage]

I think you would see an impact to religon, where the more rural druid magic-users would hold power.

Roads could be built faster with spells, earth to mud, add concrete, then harden. Same with buildings.

Trade would increase, you would create more exportable goods, which could cause two things to happen, one you become the target of raids or you have a very diplomatic weapon.

Religion: Most definitely, especially when a person can receive a reply to his prayer, plea, or supplication

Roads: The Romans didn't use concrete in road building. Compacted earth, gravel, and paving stones went into roadwork. High quality too. I would expect the Romans to use magic to strengthen roadways, and make the work last longer. Flying carpets from Persia would take a load off the roads to some extent, as would Gates and Teleportation. But not to the same extent insofar as the "Portal" magics available at the time of the (Dragon Earth) Roman Empire were not as advanced as they would become starting in the 16th century A.D.

Trade: Or both. More to steal, and more to send as gifts to the neighbors. (Said gifts sometimes leading to more raids.)

I can see personal wealth and the standard of living improving with a higher level of manufacture and trade. At the same time, it would call for a higher level of personal security as people take measures to protect their possessions.

All in all, good thoughts. I thank you for the feedback.

 

[mythusmage]

I'm guessing that even in the Rome that you are talking about that there would be forces of chaos and evil at work to counter-act and work against that good agricultural magic.

Quick ideas would include:
1. Senatorial families that would benefit by embarrasing those in power.
2. Other enemies of the empire: Barbarian conspiracy, Persia, under-ground remnants of defeated enemies (macedonia, Carthage).

I don't know if you have read the "Oath of Empire" series but there are a lot of fun ideas about a magic Rome set in the 7th century. The Western and Eastern Roman empire join forces to fight against Persia.

The thought had occured to me...

Greed and selfishness appears in every society, I doubt the (Dragon Earth) Roman Empire would be any different.

No, I haven't read the Oath of Empire series. I'll keep an eye open for the books.

Right now it looks like the Western Empire fell thanks to a combination of aristocratic duplicity, public apathy, barbarian incursions, and deital disfavor/conflict. So no Western Empire in the 7th century A.D. But a stronger Eastern Empire plus a more tolerant Islam (the pagan gods are servants of Allah. It is the Moslem's duty to wean the pagan away from worship of the gods to worship of Allah) means a more peaceful first contact than in real life. On Dragon Earth Islam is more a proselytizing faith than a conquering one. (Of course, when the opportunity presented itself...)

More stuff to think about. My thanks.

 

[mythusmage]

If the Eastern Empire still has agricultural magics, then the history of the near east might change drastically: the Byzantine Empire might be better able to fend off the Muslims. Then again, a top-heavy bureaucracy might counteract even then food production advantage. But it makes the Crusades even more of a losing endeavor.

If you go even further afield, the picture is even more interesting. Imagine if China. . .

As you can see by the post above, the Dragon Earth Moslems were not as "adamant" about spreading the faith as they were in real life. When conflict did come it was more political and resource based than religious. Not until the Turkic tribes came on the scene did that change.

Ineptitude and indifference does make life worse. Restrictive rules regarding the use of magics. Exclusionary guilds and societies concerned more with organization then the actual casting of spells restricting the use of such. Having to pay a substantial fee and fill out numerous form in order to cast a spell on the onions would discourage most folks from using it.

China... Now there is a land of possibilities. More open to theory and experimentation. But, at the same time, burdened with a bureaucracy bound by tradition. And with a system of mysticism that binds magic in a web of traditions that discourage innovation and experimentation. Chinese insularity would act to restrict adoption of foreign magical ideas and practices. The "not made here" syndrome.

To everyone who replied: My thanks for the feedback. This is proving to be a productive thread.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Well, thanks Alan, I'm glad that I have so inspired you! You've got some fine work here indeed!

Thus, I shall hope to make several points;

(I) The consistent quality and supply of food by such reliable agriculture would have dramatic impact throughout the Roman Empire.

(1) The lifespan of the Roman citizen would increase significantly. This would in turn strengthen Roman society as a whole.

(2) The increase in supply and quality of food would also significantly effect the animal populations of the empire. This would not only affect again as a multiplier the food available, but there would be more such animals--potentially many more--in which the Romans could increase for market value and multiply their profits through increased trade with other realms and peoples who would be eager to buy these increased animals, also of superior health, whether they were horses, cattle, hogs, goats, and so on.

(3) Speaking just of food processes, the magical enhancements would free up not only excess labour, which would be available for the military, but it would also free up more time in general, for everyone. The wagoneers, the merchants, the packers, virtually everyone involved with growing, packing, transporting, and selling food, would by the magical enhancements, gain substantially more free time.

(4) This extra free time would effect the society at large through a number of ways. Dating and courtship rituals and expectations would change. New industries and increased manufacturing specialization would increase, which would benefit the empire as a whole in many diverse ways. New expressions of entertainment would blossom, now that more people have more free time on their hands to enjoy enhanced games and contests being held in the Colliseum, and in great arenas around the empire.

Thus, these are just a few effects to consider from the benefit of the increased supply and quality of the food throughout the empire.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[mythusmage]

You're welcome.

At the same time, an adherence to tradition, innate human conservatism, and active opposition would make life worse. The extra leisure time could also lead to an increase in crime and vandalism. The enlarged military could lead to more attempts to gain the throne and consequentially in civil wars.

Then you've got the gods.

Tons here to think about. My thanks for your feedback.

 

[V-2]

I don't know if this has come up in an earlier discussion:

http://www.fvlminata.com/

According to reviewers (and the pdf I downloaded a while ago seemed to corroborate that), Fvlminata is a very, very well-researched RPG set in ancient Rome. It has a magic system, too.

It also has... guns. Yes, it's one of those "alternate history" RPGs. I find legionnaries with muskets a bit in yer face, but it *looks* as though they're easily dumped without harm to the rest of the game.

The only problem is that Fvlminata is a very rare bird. The first edition had a print run of 300 and is sold out. But the second edition is due "any day now." So is a Roman Britain sourcebook. However this may be, to judge from the pdf that game really is a goldmine for Roman-inspired D&D campaigns.

 

[mythusmage]

I got a copy of Fulminata. Has a nice, easy to use system that fits the mileu. I also enjoyed the alternate history. Overall a good game.

For my part I'm putting together something that better fits the DnD feel. (That's the official version. In the unofficial version it has to fit a top secret project I can't reveal right now. It does involve the D20 system BTW. [Don't you hate vague hints like that?]) This means including DnD style magic among other things, and so it won't be magically compatible with Fulminata.

For more mainstream books on Rome throughout its history, check out your local library, or the nearest university library. Or try a Google search with the keyword: "rome".

 

[mythusmage]

End of the Thread

Looks like this has come to an end. That being the case, I'll be taking this thing and using it to revise the original essay. The revised essay will be posted to this forum under the title, The Magic of the (Dragon Earth) Roman Empire. You are welcome to comment an that posting when it does occur.

Everyone who provided feedback will be credited in the new post. My thanks to you all.

 

[mythusmage]

Bump (Cuz the boards malfunctioned)

I said "BUMP!!!" dammit.

Alan the disgruntled.

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Let's check mythusmage's complaint.

Bump.