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<blockquote data-quote="Whizbang Dustyboots" data-source="post: 8318510" data-attributes="member: 11760">No, I'm not talking about Stranger in a Strange Land. I'm talking about Number of the Beast, To Sail Beyond the Sunset, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls and, to a lesser extent, Friday, which is still salvageable as a novel.Heinlein's last books in the 1970s and 1980s were largely about his surrogates -- extremely thinly veiled -- having lots of polyamorous relationships (no judgement here, so long as it's all consensual and adults), with a heavy emphasis on the sex with women young enough to be his granddaughters or great-granddaughters, and some suggestions that maybe incest isn't a big deal if birth control is involved.It's definitely a point of view.Lieber's final books feature bondage (fine between adults, but a new flavor getting mixed in), rape and sex with explicitly underage women. The last two books in particular have almost no conventional fantasy action in them at all, other than some vague mumbling at Norse mythology in Newhon's version of Iceland, but a lot of focus on keeping young women in locked chests and how many barely pubescent women Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser could have sex with. And unlike his earlier books, where the women were often the equals of the two protagonists and had lots of agency, in the last books, their successors were there as objects to have sex with and that's about it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Whizbang Dustyboots, post: 8318510, member: 11760"] No, I'm not talking about Stranger in a Strange Land. I'm talking about Number of the Beast, To Sail Beyond the Sunset, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls and, to a lesser extent, Friday, which is still salvageable as a novel. Heinlein's last books in the 1970s and 1980s were largely about his surrogates -- extremely thinly veiled -- having lots of polyamorous relationships (no judgement here, so long as it's all consensual and adults), with a heavy emphasis on the sex with women young enough to be his granddaughters or great-granddaughters, and some suggestions that maybe incest isn't a big deal if birth control is involved. It's definitely a point of view. Lieber's final books feature bondage (fine between adults, but a new flavor getting mixed in), rape and sex with explicitly underage women. The last two books in particular have almost no conventional fantasy action in them at all, other than some vague mumbling at Norse mythology in Newhon's version of Iceland, but a lot of focus on keeping young women in locked chests and how many barely pubescent women Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser could have sex with. And unlike his earlier books, where the women were often the equals of the two protagonists and had lots of agency, in the last books, their successors were there as objects to have sex with and that's about it. [/QUOTE]

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