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<blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 3662675" data-attributes="member: 13966">I made it clear in my opening that I was ignoring non-Core material, except for a few feats in the SRD that came from Deities &amp; Demigods (Power Critical, Hold The Line, and Knock-Down).The reason is quite simple: adding a bunch of non-core stuff will of course change a lot, but where does it end?&nbsp; Once we start throwing in Psionic feats, Tome of Battle feats and some level dipping for martial maneuvers/stances, PHB 2 feats and alternate class features for yet more optimization, magic items from the MIC, Exalted feats from the BoED, and so on and so forth......where the heck does it end, and how do we determine if there's any real balance difference between the actual classes that are being compared?&nbsp; Most of the difference will be in the less-balanced, less-playtested feats and junk from non-core sources.&nbsp; So it's best to keep it simple for this kind of comparison.As for the shield, I mentioned later, in the post just before this one, that animated shields are broken and I won't use that kind of cheese for a fair comparison, especially since I'm not throwing in any similar broken cheese on the Monk's behalf (Exalted feats, Vow of Poverty, etc.).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Arkhandus, post: 3662675, member: 13966"] I made it clear in my opening that I was ignoring non-Core material, except for a few feats in the SRD that came from Deities & Demigods (Power Critical, Hold The Line, and Knock-Down). The reason is quite simple: adding a bunch of non-core stuff will of course change a lot, but where does it end? Once we start throwing in Psionic feats, Tome of Battle feats and some level dipping for martial maneuvers/stances, PHB 2 feats and alternate class features for [I]yet more[/I] optimization, magic items from the MIC, Exalted feats from the BoED, and so on and so forth......where the heck does it end, and how do we determine if there's any real balance difference between the actual [I]classes[/I] that are being compared? Most of the difference will be in the less-balanced, less-playtested feats and junk from non-core sources. So it's best to keep it simple for this kind of comparison. As for the shield, I mentioned later, in the post just before this one, that animated shields are broken and I won't use that kind of cheese for a fair comparison, especially since I'm not throwing in any similar broken cheese on the Monk's behalf (Exalted feats, Vow of Poverty, etc.). [/QUOTE]

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