A Song of Ice and Fire Update

[ASH]

Good lord, Jdavis, you type with wisdom. I have read many of your posts about jordan, and usually agree with you.

Everyone else,
Isnt this a Martin thread? I mean, one of the best series of books I have ever read was the death gate cycle and that was more than 3 books. The amount of books written has little to do with the quality of the story. Martin has never given us any reason to think that the next book will suck. He seems to have an idea of what is going to happen in the end, and was not planning on writing the book that he is now. So I am glad he is taking time, I would rather wait than have him rush a book out. I like the story, I want more plot development. He seems less crazy about selling books and more crazy about makeing sure his fans are satisfied, unlike Jordan.

Now, I just think that its a book, not something that will change life as we know it, not the bible. I mean after I read it, I go back to cooking, cleaning, taking care of my kids. I dont care if he wants to be called an artist, or an expert, or just a damn good writer.
Its a book.
Respect each other.

ash

 

[ConnorSB]

GRRM is the man! Although I do really want book 4 to be out, I also really want it to be GOOD. And therefore, waiting is a GOOD THING, if it means quality as good as any of the first three.

Jordan I stopped reading after Winter's Heart. I bought it the day it came out, read it, waited for the next book, and learned that waiting a year and a half for what turned out to be total garbage was a BAD THING.

Goodkind I got to book 4, but then I couldn't find a copy of book five, and by the time I finally got back to the series, I didn't remember enough and found the S&M less palatable now that I had forgotten what the heck was going on around it. Plus, I realized how much I didn't like his writing style.

Eddings I got to the third book of the second series before I realized that it was EXACTLY THE SAME as the first 5 books. In fact, every book was generally the same plot: Lets go wandering across a land where every person, place, or phrophesy is made up of the same eight letters, and sounds exactly the same.

But Martin... Martin is the dimond in the rough. Compelling characters, engaging plot, more "human" struggles (no clear good/evil, villains/heroes). Its simply the best.

 

[WizarDru]

Takyris, I think you may be missing something: you're assuming that GRRM isn't working, because he isn't producing the book. The indications I've seen seem to indicate otherwise.

Remember: visits to places like the San Diego Comic-con and World Science Fiction convention are marketing efforts, not pleasure trips. So are regional and national appearances. GRRM has been overseeing an RPG, a comic book, souvenior coins, a board game, a career retrospective, a TCG and more licenses (including, presumably, movie offers) that all generate revenue off of his work. He IS putting food on the table, and it comes from more than just producing a book.

On top of all that, the man was, prior to this series, almost equally more famous for his work as an editor. I would expect he has a better grasp for editing his own work and being more self-critical of it than Jordan tends to be. Moreover, he isn't a one-trick pony, as Jordan is (Conan work notwithstanding). He was doing well before SoI&F, and will continue on past it. Considering he's been publishing since at least what, 1979 for Sandkings? I think he has an idea how to pay the bills.

 

[takyris]

I'm not assuming he isn't working. I'm assuming he isn't writing -- or at least, he isn't writing terribly productively, given the three years since his last book came out. Heck, I saw the dude a few Worldcons ago -- I know how important it is to see and be seen. But I don't think he's in any danger of falling off people's radar. And if you ask most professional writers whether it's better to get their next book out or appear at an additional 10 conventions in one year, they're likely to lean toward the book. Getting the book out, and only going to Worldcon and World Fantasy Con, is probably better than showing up at every convention in the country and talking about how your book still isn't out yet.

You're right, in that it's a continuum, and both are necessary, but I'd say that after three-plus years, it might be time to stop going to conventions and answering questions about being a writer and, you know, start writing -- or start kicking the writing into high-gear. Go to conventions when the thing's getting edited and blue-lined and all that, so that you can talk up your upcoming product.

As to his editor status, I knew about that, too. At least, some of it. I know about the Wild Cards and the SF stuff.

You know, I love the man, I love his work, I'm buying it the day it comes out. I don't think I'm as negative about this as people seem to think I am. It's just that writing isn't some big mystical process for me, so I can't say, "Oh, he hasn't transformed beauty into truth yet, you can't put a timeline on that." Because you can. You can plot stuff out in a detailed way, and then you can say, "Okay, I'll have this chapter done by the end of the week, and then I'll have this next chapter done by the end of next week," and so on. You can do that. Even if it's not great, you can get it out on paper and then go back and edit it to a state of beauty.

I hope he gets to the point where it all comes together soon.

 

[WizarDru]

You can plot stuff out in a detailed way, and then you can say, "Okay, I'll have this chapter done by the end of the week, and then I'll have this next chapter done by the end of next week," and so on. You can do that. Even if it's not great, you can get it out on paper and then go back and edit it to a state of beauty.

I hope he gets to the point where it all comes together soon.

As do we all, I think...we certainly don't want him pulling a David Gerrold on us, though I don't think that will happen. I understand what you're saying and agree to an extent. Discipline is an important part of being a succesful writer. I believe that GRRM has that discipline...but I also believe he has the luxury of being able to dictate his schedule to his satisfaction, not his publishers. I'm willing to bet that he's painfully aware of Jordan's situation...where it's clear that Jordan painted himself in a corner, and now is a victim of his own success, and GRRM wants to avoid that. And for all we know, he may have reasons for making those commitments, such as publisher request or obligation, and not simply pure fan interaction and marketing.

I think he has been trying to edit it to a state of beauty...but "you can't polish a turd", as the saying goes....writing just to write can still produce useless drek. And considering he's been a published author since 1976, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows what he's doing.

Mind you, the 'I'm retooling it' excuse only goes so far, and you're right to call him on it. If Feast of Crows isn't a good book, delaying it's release will only make that issue more glaring. However, after hearing him read one chapter at a Worldcon and then reading the story in Dragon magazine, I don't see that as the case. I just hope he does finish it soon, so we can all get on with it. The biggest fear is the delay between this and the next book would be equally as long...and NO ONE wants that.

 

[KenM]

Of course, once CROWS hits stores, everyone is going to start to ask: "when is the next one coming?"

 

[ssampier]

DMScott I was a little more critical about RJ that I should have been (especially since this a GRRM thread).

I'm looking forward to Feast of Crows, I'm thinking this book should be done by Spring at the latest (grr, I tire of waiting). KenM you're right, once it's released, we'll be complaining about that book not being released.