A subtle reminder from wizards.(or not so subtle)

[Solvarn]

Well, it seems to me that no matter how many times WotC says:

• The Essentials consist of 10 key products that will form the baseline experience for the roleplaying game moving forward.
• The Essentials are NOT a new game or a new edition.
• The Essentials are NOT replacing the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, or Monster Manual.
• The Essentials are providing a better framework and starting point for new players while also providing new options for existing players to add to their games.
• The Essentials products work with all other Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game products, from Player’s Handbook to new products releasing in 2011 and beyond—just like all other D&D products we release.

rumors and assertions to the contrary keep cropping up.

It's almost as if people aren't paying attention when WotC says:

• The Essentials consist of 10 key products that will form the baseline experience for the roleplaying game moving forward.
• The Essentials are NOT a new game or a new edition.
• The Essentials are NOT replacing the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, or Monster Manual.
• The Essentials are providing a better framework and starting point for new players while also providing new options for existing players to add to their games.
• The Essentials products work with all other Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game products, from Player’s Handbook to new products releasing in 2011 and beyond—just like all other D&D products we release.

Or maybe they just don't believe it when WotC says:

• The Essentials consist of 10 key products that will form the baseline experience for the roleplaying game moving forward.
• The Essentials are NOT a new game or a new edition.
• The Essentials are NOT replacing the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, or Monster Manual.
• The Essentials are providing a better framework and starting point for new players while also providing new options for existing players to add to their games.
• The Essentials products work with all other Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game products, from Player’s Handbook to new products releasing in 2011 and beyond—just like all other D&D products we release.

So I guess that's the reason that WotC has to keep saying:

• The Essentials consist of 10 key products that will form the baseline experience for the roleplaying game moving forward.
• The Essentials are NOT a new game or a new edition.
• The Essentials are NOT replacing the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, or Monster Manual.
• The Essentials are providing a better framework and starting point for new players while also providing new options for existing players to add to their games.
• The Essentials products work with all other Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game products, from Player’s Handbook to new products releasing in 2011 and beyond—just like all other D&D products we release.

You mean like how D&D Insider was going to include a game table and features to display a character portrait?

Not taking a shot at anyone in specific here, I'm just illustrating the point that things change and that many fears will be put to rest when we see a more comprehensive release schedule stretching into 2011.

 

[Tony Vargas]

They're not the only ones. Your previous post reeks of sarcasm, and the extremely strong inference is that you hate corporate America.

There's a lot of hatred for corporate America out there, and I can see how you might be expecting to see that. No, I don't hate the big corporations that gave me a good living for 12 years, but I am keenly aware of the rediculousness of corporate speak. That's what WotC is engaging in when they say those things the OP quoted. They're just trying to make their next set of products sound acceptable to everyone. And, if that means being disengenuous, and claiming that the product is /exactly/ what old-school gamers who don't like 4e, 4e fans, and newbies all want, then that's what they'll do. The fact that it's impossible that a product could apeal to the union of those disparate sets notwithstanding.

You don't have to hate marketeers to realize that you have to take what they saw with a very large grain of salt.

Now, if your point is that a company shouldn't screw their customers, I doubt anyone would disagree. But, we certainly disagree that that's what WotC is trying to do here. They are certainly not antagonizing their customers. I don't plan to buy essentials and don't feel slighted in the slightest

It's the nature of selling that you'll have some satisfied customers and some dissatisfied customers. While it's desireable to maximize the former, the latter are still revenue - at worst, one-time revenue. If you're /not/ buying essentials, the fact that you don't feel slighted doesn't add anything to WotC's bottom line when they're trying to justify their continued existance to Hasbro for another quarter.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

I don't understand how it is obsfucatory.

I didn't mean to imply intent to mislead, but there is definitely an effect in that direction. They may not have wanted to obscure, but that's the effect we're seeing. The previews raise more questions than they answer, IMO. This kicks up dust on this and other boards which hinders discussion more than it helps.

I can't see what's really going on, because they provide weak partial answers that kick up dust when everyone scrambles to fill in the blanks. The two martial classes are particularly bad in this regard, and something as simple as a straightforward 3-level preview would alleviate some of the flailing about that's clouding every discussion.

 

[The Little Raven]

The previews raise more questions than they answer, IMO.

This is the case for every preview known to man, since those questions are a big part of what can motivate people to buy the product. A preview shows a tiny fraction of the product its for. A preview that doesn't raise more questions than answers is a bad preview.

I can't see what's really going on, because they provide weak partial answers that kick up dust when everyone scrambles to fill in the blanks.

The answers are pretty clear.

Is this a new edition? No.
Is this 4.5? No.
Does this invalidate any previous material? No.

The only way it can be unclear is if you flat out doubt their word. And all the clarification in the world won't change that, honestly.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

I was referring pretty specifically to rules questions, but you can kick up more dust by inflating that into some sort of accusation of anti-corporate tin-foil-hat-ism if you wish. I'm sure it's helpful.

 

[DracoSuave]

I didn't mean to imply intent to mislead, but there is definitely an effect in that direction. They may not have wanted to obscure, but that's the effect we're seeing. The previews raise more questions than they answer, IMO. This kicks up dust on this and other boards which hinders discussion more than it helps.

I can't see what's really going on, because they provide weak partial answers that kick up dust when everyone scrambles to fill in the blanks. The two martial classes are particularly bad in this regard, and something as simple as a straightforward 3-level preview would alleviate some of the flailing about that's clouding every discussion.

Like what?

That it's 'rendering the PHB obsolete?' Nope, they came out with a direct answer to that. That the classes are variants that are compatable but use different design space? Nope, that was pretty open immediately too. That they might stop selling the core rules? Nope, they said they're still selling those and the only reason it's not in production is they have lots of stock to sell. That it introduces rules changes? Nope, those rules changes were already going to be in place.

What questions exactly have they failed to answer to any satisfaction? What mystery remains unsolved regarding the intent and future of this product? They've laid it out on the line. What they have not done is simply print the entirety of the class structure on line for people to read. And to ask of that is foolishness--they just don't do that.

Except they did.

The previews also include the level charts for each class so you can see -exactly- how they gain levels, what powers they do and do not get, and the names of features they get instead of powers where appropriate.

What those features are is up for speculation, but in all honesty, THAT mystery hasn't had a single BIT of discussion here... so it's fallacious to say that they've 'created questions' when in all honestly NO ONE IS ASKING THEM.

The questions people ARE asking are answered, have been answered before, and probably will be answered again.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The questions people ARE asking are answered, have been answered before, and probably will be answered again.

The only question they haven't answered yet that some people here still want is "When are you going to go back to making some 3E stuff? Cause I won't give you my money otherwise!"

 

[DracoSuave]

The only question they haven't answered yet that some people here still want is "When are you going to go back to making some 3E stuff? Cause I won't give you my money otherwise!"

Really?

I thought they had given a pretty explicit answer on that.

Just because one does not like to hear 'never' does not mean they were never told 'never'.

 

[renau1g]

The only question they haven't answered yet that some people here still want is "When are you going to go back to making some 3E stuff? Cause I won't give you my money otherwise!"

Don't forget "Hey! When are you going to offer older edition PDF's like you did for a while that I really want but didn't get at the time" (pokes fun)

 

[Tony Vargas]

That it's 'rendering the PHB obsolete?' Nope, they came out with a direct answer to that. That they might stop selling the core rules? Nope, they said they're still selling those and the only reason it's not in production is they have lots of stock to sell.

I don't think it's the directness of the answer that's at issue, but it's plausibility. There has been a lot of errata issued against the PH. It's not being re-printed with that errata. All the general rules in the PH /will/ be re-printed, with errata, in the Essentials Compendium. That's not technically obsoleting or replacing the PH. It's skating awefully close to it, though, and it wouldn't take much for WotC to find out, when they've sold out their back stock of PHs that they were 'mistaken' about that claim.

Now, when I say the claim is maybe not that plausible, I'm not saying it's an outright malicious lie, nor that it's certainly false. But, it might later turn out to be 'mistaken' - and there's a lot of space between a malicious lie and an honest mistake for whatever the real intent was. Ultimately, the precise intent doesn't matter. They're a business, their intent is to try to attract as many customers as they can, while pleasing most of them, and alienating as few as possible. They may or may not succeed, but even if they fail, it doesn't mean they were /intentially/ sticking it to some segment of the fan base.

That the classes are variants that are compatable but use different design space? Nope, that was pretty open immediately too. That it introduces rules changes? Nope, those rules changes were already going to be in place.

Yes, rules have been changed and there are sub-classes that are functional replacements for existing builds.

The Mage and Wizard are perfectly compatible, it's true - the Mage is just a Wizard with a different set of class features, all the Mage's powers are aparently getting a Wizard level X tag, which means they can be swapped out. A build with new features is not too revolutionary - a bit radical, at worst.

The Warpriest and Cleric are less so. The Cleric is a split-primary STR/WIS class, the Warpriest is pure WIS, and a clear functional replacement for the Cleric STR build. The WIS Cleric builds are compatible with the Warpriest, the STR build is effectively 'orphaned.'

The Knight and Theif are so different from the Fighter and Rogue as to be replacement /classes/ rather than replacement builds. There's virtually no compatibility between them. At most, they'll be able to swap around utilities - if their other utilities have levels, that is.


Now, the PH is still going to be available to buy, but what does an Essentials customer get out of buying it? A bunch of rules already in the compendium, some outmoded builds for classes already in the compendium - and a couple of 'new' (old) classes. The Warlord is a great class, but I doubt it'd justify buying a PH to someone whose waited this long to get into the game because the entry-level price of the first 3 core books was intimidating.

In effect, books that have /some/ of their material reprinted in Essentials will have become more expensive (for what you get), and material from those books /not/ reprinted is likely to be 'orphaned,' like the STR Cleric, and slowly disapear from the game unless eventually re-printed in a later product.


The Essentials will lead to DDI subscriptions is probably the best hope for the classes being 'left behind.' And, actually, that's not a terrible model. Subscribe to DDI and get the occult content that was too cool to put in Essentials, and only the 'old timers' know about. If you can give someone a sense that they've 'missed out' on something, it can be quite the little motivator.