A Technical Look at D&D Insider Applications

[Scott_Rouse]

Hmm. Well, I *really* like the idea of the online versions of the books, and I'm likely to be a subscriber and all that. At the same point however, I'm wary of taking a gamble with my code, and the possibility of having to contact customer support for anything. I'm sure the WotC support department is top notch, but I'm not a gambling man. So the upshot of all this? I'll be purchasing all my books via Amazon.ca. Sorry, FLGS.

If fraud becomes a pervasive problem we will likely be forced to implement a more tamper proof code insertion solution that will likely come at a higher cost (CDs, Scratch off, coded gift card, etc)

 

[Irda Ranger]

Scott, thank you for continuing to post. I appreciate having a real conversation with the people I do business with, and I'm sure many others here feel the same. I just have a few comments.

1) the PDF will have a watermark ... but we are still looking at multiple solutions ... we will likely have some level of built in "digital rights management" used in the broadest sense ...

I, for one, don't mind the idea of the watermark as long as it doesn't obscure my ability to read & print the text. Personally, I think you should try having a watermark that actually looks cool, like having "Irda Ranger's Player's Handbook" printed page headers or "From the Library of Irda Ranger" in a cool seal on the inside cover. It would be a "feature" for people who honestly want to collect your books, but also discourage posting them to the p2p networks.

I would however like to cast my vote against any form of "DRM" that doesn't allow reading the book on an open and supported format, disconnected from the internet. I have several very strong reasons for this:

1. I boot Windows, Max OS X and Ubuntu on different machines. I am posting this post here from my Ubuntu desktop, but usually DM at the table from my MacBook. I also have PDF's on my blackberry. Proprietary solutions never have this kind of wide support, and I fear that if WotC ever goes bankrupt, or decides to stop supporting their format, that I won't be able to read my book anymore. It will be revealed that my "purchase" was really a "rental", and every investment I have made in reliance thereof (both in time, money and emotional energy) will have been for naught. A corporate decision-maker could "zero out" my account with D&D with the flick of his pen.

Just so we're clear, I will NEVER allow myself to be in that position. Which means that if you go with a DRM solution, I simply will never participate in your market.

2. I don't think it's really possible to keep your books off of Limewire, no matter what you do. So any kind of DRM you impose will simply be a cost to your 10,000,000 legit customers worldwide, and no more than a speedbump to the 10 pirates out there. That may be hard to accept, as an author, but I think WotC (and this goes for ALL media companies) just needs to come to terms with this and admit that they're only selling two things: the paper version of the book, and the online experience at DDI.

This is the same reason Madonna has signed with a concert promoter, not a record label. The record labels are not adapting to the new market, where the valuable product is the "experience" and the "extras" that come with the CD. The CD itself is worthless, despite all the hard work that went into making it.

But even if you don't agree with me, I'm sure this point has been argued at the office. I'm really just adding my vote to "come play by the new rules."

3) We have settled on one code activation per book. That being said if you buy a book that has had the code activated you can call CS on a toll free number, email CS, or live chat with CS and they will make sure to straighten out the problem for you (as described under #2).

Hmmm.

I see two problems with this right off.

1. The re-sale market. I know that's not really your concern, but it does lower the value of the initial purchase to the purchaser, which might lower sales. When I'm on Amazon I often think to myself "Well, this costs $17, but if I don't like it I can sell it on E*bay for $10, so I'm only really risking $7 here." and I buy it. If I can't resell, I'm risking the full $17. At the margin, this will effect sales.

2. I'm married. A lot of players are. As you know, your customers aren't all highschool geeks in their Mom's basement. Not anymore, anyway. But seriously, my wife and I share all of our books. Insisting that we buy a book for each of us doubles the cost of this hobby for us, which will cut into our purchases a lot. Your customers who play with their kids are in even a worse situation.

A model you might want to look at would be Apple's OS upgrade discs, which are 100% cost for one copy, or 140% for a "family pack" good for up to five computers in the same household.

I can't say if sharing will be allowed.

Hmm. I'm not sure how much using the word "sharing" even makes sense in a digital context, but I only have two points on this:
1. DM's should be able to have a table rule that doesn't require everyone in the group having bought the book. Restricting rule use to the lowest common denominator will kill book sales, since it lowers the incentive of the DM to get a new book.
2. Don't do other stuff that pisses off your customers.

I think those of both common sense things that you already know though, so just try to keep them in mind and things should work out.

Be well, Scott. Thanks for posting.

 

[Irda Ranger]

If fraud becomes a pervasive problem we will likely be forced to implement a more tamper proof code insertion solution that will likely come at a higher cost (CDs, Scratch off, coded gift card, etc)

I think it would be easier to have a 2-part ID at little extra cost. Ask for the unique code and the third word of the fourth paragraph on page 167 (choose the word randomly each time). That way anyone who doesn't have the book in front of them ...

 

[SteveC]

If fraud becomes a pervasive problem we will likely be forced to implement a more tamper proof code insertion solution that will likely come at a higher cost (CDs, Scratch off, coded gift card, etc)

I just wanted to chime in for a minute and highly suggest against this sort of thing. I have said it before, and I think it bears repeating, that 4th Edition books will be available via a number of clandestine networks within 72 hours of launch. That was my Stone Cold Lead Pipe Lock of the Week tip for my subscribers. I don't support it in any way, but that's going to happen.

Just making it a simple method of using the codes, buying the book and not worrying about activation or transfer between people who might have resold the book or whatever else occurs is the best way for WotC to go in this case. Keeping it simple, and not punishing the people who want to support your product is the best solution to these kinds of situations, because there is no way for you to stop piracy. Frankly, there is no way for you to even slow it down, because pirates have channels to get things and won't be your customers using your own service to hurt you.

If Wizards uses a DRM solution, or if I would need to jump through hoops to download a product, I'm not going to buy it. And I'm not alone on this matter. If it's a simple, straightforward PDF I can download, then I will buy it, and encourage others to do so. It's just that simple.

--Steve

 

[Scott_Rouse]

Scott, thank you for continuing to post. I appreciate having a real conversation with the people I do business with, and I'm sure many others here feel the same. I just have a few comments.


I, for one, don't mind the idea of the watermark as long as it doesn't obscure my ability to read & print the text. Personally, I think you should try having a watermark that actually looks cool, like having "Irda Ranger's Player's Handbook" printed page headers or "From the Library of Irda Ranger" in a cool seal on the inside cover. It would be a "feature" for people who honestly want to collect your books, but also discourage posting them to the p2p networks.

I would however like to cast my vote against any form of "DRM" that doesn't allow reading the book on an open and supported format, disconnected from the internet. I have several very strong reasons for this:

1. I boot Windows, Max OS X and Ubuntu on different machines. I am posting this post here from my Ubuntu desktop, but usually DM at the table from my MacBook. I also have PDF's on my blackberry. Proprietary solutions never have this kind of wide support, and I fear that if WotC ever goes bankrupt, or decides to stop supporting their format, that I won't be able to read my book anymore. It will be revealed that my "purchase" was really a "rental", and every investment I have made in reliance thereof (both in time, money and emotional energy) will have been for naught. A corporate decision-maker could "zero out" my account with D&D with the flick of his pen.

Just so we're clear, I will NEVER allow myself to be in that position. Which means that if you go with a DRM solution, I simply will never participate in your market.

2. I don't think it's really possible to keep your books off of Limewire, no matter what you do. So any kind of DRM you impose will simply be a cost to your 10,000,000 legit customers worldwide, and no more than a speedbump to the 10 pirates out there. That may be hard to accept, as an author, but I think WotC (and this goes for ALL media companies) just needs to come to terms with this and admit that they're only selling two things: the paper version of the book, and the online experience at DDI.

This is the same reason Madonna has signed with a concert promoter, not a record label. The record labels are not adapting to the new market, where the valuable product is the "experience" and the "extras" that come with the CD. The CD itself is worthless, despite all the hard work that went into making it.

But even if you don't agree with me, I'm sure this point has been argued at the office. I'm really just adding my vote to "come play by the new rules."


Hmmm.

I see two problems with this right off.

1. The re-sale market. I know that's not really your concern, but it does lower the value of the initial purchase to the purchaser, which might lower sales. When I'm on Amazon I often think to myself "Well, this costs $17, but if I don't like it I can sell it on E*bay for $10, so I'm only really risking $7 here." and I buy it. If I can't resell, I'm risking the full $17. At the margin, this will effect sales.

2. I'm married. A lot of players are. As you know, your customers aren't all highschool geeks in their Mom's basement. Not anymore, anyway. But seriously, my wife and I share all of our books. Insisting that we buy a book for each of us doubles the cost of this hobby for us, which will cut into our purchases a lot. Your customers who play with their kids are in even a worse situation.

A model you might want to look at would be Apple's OS upgrade discs, which are 100% cost for one copy, or 140% for a "family pack" good for up to five computers in the same household.



Hmm. I'm not sure how much using the word "sharing" even makes sense in a digital context, but I only have two points on this:
1. DM's should be able to have a table rule that doesn't require everyone in the group having bought the book. Restricting rule use to the lowest common denominator will kill book sales, since it lowers the incentive of the DM to get a new book.
2. Don't do other stuff that pisses off your customers.

I think those of both common sense things that you already know though, so just try to keep them in mind and things should work out.

Be well, Scott. Thanks for posting.

Our thinking is very alike on the subjects you mention above. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

I think it would be easier to have a 2-part ID at little extra cost. Ask for the unique code and the third word of the fourth paragraph on page 167 (choose the word randomly each time). That way anyone who doesn't have the book in front of them ...

We have considered this but this it is obviously a hackable system as well. It all goes back to to trusting your customers

 

[Scott_Rouse]

I just wanted to chime in for a minute and highly suggest against this sort of thing. I have said it before, and I think it bears repeating, that 4th Edition books will be available via a number of clandestine networks within 72 hours of launch. That was my Stone Cold Lead Pipe Lock of the Week tip for my subscribers. I don't support it in any way, but that's going to happen.

Just making it a simple method of using the codes, buying the book and not worrying about activation or transfer between people who might have resold the book or whatever else occurs is the best way for WotC to go in this case. Keeping it simple, and not punishing the people who want to support your product is the best solution to these kinds of situations, because there is no way for you to stop piracy. Frankly, there is no way for you to even slow it down, because pirates have channels to get things and won't be your customers using your own service to hurt you.

If Wizards uses a DRM solution, or if I would need to jump through hoops to download a product, I'm not going to buy it. And I'm not alone on this matter. If it's a simple, straightforward PDF I can download, then I will buy it, and encourage others to do so. It's just that simple.

--Steve

Yes this is all correct. It all goes back to believing that 99.99% of our customers are honest and that they would rather pay for a legit product than steal one. That being said if fraud becomes pandemic then the system fails and the honest customers lose.

 

[Kraydak]

...If a code is in dispute with have the ability to verify ownership when we are handling it through CS.

3) We have settled on one code activation per book. That being said if you buy a book that has had the code activated you can call CS on a toll free number, email CS, or live chat with CS and they will make sure to straighten out the problem for you (as described under #2).

....

I find these remarks, well, remarkably unreassuring. Going beyond the fact that many people do *not* hang onto their receipts, how would CS handle the following:

1) Person A buys the book. He uses the code. He sells to book to person B, either telling the truth or lieing about the code activation. Person B tries to use the code. No one has (any more) any receipts. Both people have digital images of the code (note that if CS is relying on digital images, they are assuming everyone has a digital camera...). I cannot see anyway for CS to be able to tell who is telling the truth.

2) Person A buys a used book w/o code. He decides, later, that he wants the DI portion. He takes a picture of a code of a book in his FLGS and uses it. Person B buys that book, say cash. *Assuming* that person B finds out that the code has been used before he trashes his receipt, does the receipt from *every* FLGS provide enough information to uniquely ID a specific copy of a PHB4? If not (and assuming person B still has the receipt, not a safe assumption, and even not safer yet if the book is a gift for person B bought by person C), how does CS resolve the matter? Both person A and B have a copy of the book and digital images of the code...

3) People A and B decide to buy a copy of the PHB4. Person A dislikes reading from a computer screen and isn't interested in DI, while person B is cash strapped. Person A goes in it for 75% of the cost and gets the book. Person B goes in it for 25% and gets the code. 2 months later, person A changes his mind about the whole DI thing...

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

1) the PDF will have a watermark. DRM is a term thrown around a lot and it means different things to different people. In looking at file formats we have looked at some that have some DRM and others that don't. We seem to be leaning towards a .PDF file format usable with Adobe reader but we are still looking at multiple solutions so nothing is final. In general our philosophy is to trust the customer but we will likely have some level of built in "digital rights management" used in the broadest sense that people who own the document are the ones using it and there is some level of assurance that it wont be on bit torrent the next day.

It will be on BitTorrent the next day. There's no reason to even worry about certainties like that. However, having a watermark or something else that identifies the owner will stop Joe Gamer from just idly sticking it into his file sharing directory.

2) the codes in the books will be printed in ink on a back page of the book. No shrink wrap, no scratch off, not secret decoder ring. This was the least expensive method of inserting a code (to avoid further cost increases that inevitably get passed on to you the buyer) and that avoided issues at retail with the product like: "the code on this book has been scratched off" or "can you unwrap it so I can see it?". Obviously this solution comes with a issue that any unscrupulous individual could got to his/her FLGS and copy down the code and go home and redeem it. This is where the activation fee comes in. We generally believe our customers to be honest and we felt a method that verified your identity would go a long way to deterring and would be thieves. Obviously this solution is not infallible but we have a very good fraud prevention team at WOTC for Magic Online and they will be able to deal with the issues that do arise. A person with a code problem will be able to talk with a customer service rep and largely we are going to trust the customer. If a code is in dispute with have the ability to verify ownership when we are handling it through CS.

That's pretty much what I thought. If you can send in a photocopy of the page with the code, or email a digital camera photo of the page, that's pretty good proof you have the book. Proof enough, at any rate. Then there's fraud investigation on the other end.

In terms of e-book sharing. Although we would prefer every player owned their own books we know and understand a fair amount of sharing occurs. That being said, because we have not finalized the file format issue (and any potential DRM) I can't say if sharing will be allowed. The last solution we did look at would allow for a minimum amount of transfer between computers/users but nothing is final at this point.

Given that DRM causes general unhappiness among the user base, has the problem that it can eventually fail to work, doesn't work with alternative PDF viewers, doesn't always migrate well, and utterly fails to prevent piracy, I don't see why you're even considering it. DriveThruRPG started on a DRM-PDF delivery system and abandoned it because it inconvenienced their customers and their PDFs were showing up on p2p somehow mysteriously DRM-free. It cost them money to implement, but wasn't slowing down piracy. It was just turning their product into crippleware.

Watermarking works just fine to prevent casual piracy, and nothing will prevent non-casual piracy.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

I find these remarks, well, remarkably unreassuring. Going beyond the fact that many people do *not* hang onto their receipts, how would CS handle the following:

1) Person A buys the book. He uses the code. He sells to book to person B, either telling the truth or lieing about the code activation. Person B tries to use the code. No one has (any more) any receipts. Both people have digital images of the code (note that if CS is relying on digital images, they are assuming everyone has a digital camera...). I cannot see anyway for CS to be able to tell who is telling the truth.

2) Person A buys a used book w/o code. He decides, later, that he wants the DI portion. He takes a picture of a code of a book in his FLGS and uses it. Person B buys that book, say cash. *Assuming* that person B finds out that the code has been used before he trashes his receipt, does the receipt from *every* FLGS provide enough information to uniquely ID a specific copy of a PHB4? If not (and assuming person B still has the receipt, not a safe assumption, and even not safer yet if the book is a gift for person B bought by person C), how does CS resolve the matter? Both person A and B have a copy of the book and digital images of the code...

3) People A and B decide to buy a copy of the PHB4. Person A dislikes reading from a computer screen and isn't interested in DI, while person B is cash strapped. Person A goes in it for 75% of the cost and gets the book. Person B goes in it for 25% and gets the code. 2 months later, person A changes his mind about the whole DI thing...

First how many people really do any of these things?

Second look into the customer history of the code activation in the system.

Third, give the customers the benefit of the doubt and activate their code.