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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8129819" data-attributes="member: 16814">Let's assume you've hidden -- you cast a 5th level spell subtly and use telekinesis at a range of 60 feet. This is because you cannot both use subtle and distant at the same time.  So, you do, but you have a +3 to CHA and let's say the other guy has a -1 to STR, giving you a 4 point difference.  That's still only a 66% chance of success.  Let's say you do it, though, and the target is restrained.  You're now done, because you can't case a quickened psionic spell because using a bonus action to cast limits you to only casting a cantrip otherwise.  You've cast a 5th level spell, so that's out.  Still well and good. The enemy may not try to cast a spell, which you can subtly counterspell with a 3rd level slot.  Provided the spell isn't a higher level than 3rd, you succeed.  If it is higher than 3rd, your +3 CHA will hurt a bit as you'll need an 11 minimum on the die (for a 4th level spell), which is only a 50% chance. So, first round done, you're down a 5th slot and a 3rd slot, 2 sorcery points for subtle, and perhaps another for a use of magic guidance.  Let's say not, so 2 down.  You've done no damage.So, next turn, you maintain concentration on telekinesis and reup the restraint as an action.  Another 66% chance, which means you're likely to have used magical guidance at this point because you have about a 50/50 chance of having failed (slightly better).  So, now you're down 3 sorcery points.  You then cast a quickened psionic spell, let's say Mind Thrust, at 2nd level.  That's 2 sorcery points for Mind Thrust and 2 for quickened spell.  You can do this because you just maintained Telekinesis instead of casting it.  You've done some damage, finally!  Unfortunately, it's likely the wizard has saved, as INT is his prime stat and he's proficient, so against your DC 15 he has +8 or +9 to save.  Still, it's half of 3d8, so marks on the board!  You're now down 7 sorcery points.  The mage goes, and casts a spell, which you subtly counter, for another 3rd level slot and a sorcery point.  That's 8 -- running low.Next turn, you try mostly the same thing -- concentrate on telekinesis and throw a spell. This mind thrust succeeds!  The wizard fails their check, but they're okay because they still have hitpoints left.  They choose to keep an action for next turn.  You're now tapped on sorcery points, having spent another 2 on that quickened mind thrust.  Now, when the wizard casts and you counterspell, you cannot use subtle, so you reveal yourself in casting.  The wizard is down three countered spell slots, and you're tapped on sorcery points, down 3 3rd level slots and 1 5th.  You've done 4.5d8 damage to the wizard, which hasn't brought him below half.  You're going to have to start upcasting counterspells and it's likely that the wizard won't be restrained next round as you can't magical guidance yourself.  You'll have to cast normally next round to use your bonus action to convert a slot for points.  And the wizard can counter that casting unless you're converting and then casting psionically, which is a great way to burn your points and be stuck in the same loop. Regardless, the wizard can see you now and can cast whatever they want (restrained doesn't prevent spellcasting) and counter your counters because you don't have the sorcery points to make them subtle as often.  The wizard now has an edge in available slots -- they've spent less than you have, especially since you now will be bonus action converting more slots into sorcery points.It's a neat trick, but it's unsustainable and so really only useful in limited cases.  If you want to switch to a neat enchantment spell against the wizard, perhaps a suggestion or a charm or a dominate (which is your other 5th level slot), you certainly can, but the wizard is immediately free of telekinesis when you drop concentration, which means you've largely wasted a 5th level slot to begin with.  And, if you dominate the wizard, cool but it's likely to get advantage on a proficient saving throw against your poor DC (again, DC 15).Even if you game out a situation where you get your perfect setup and things largely go your way, this isn't overwhelming at all -- you burn a huge amount of resources for about 20 damage.  At the end of that, you're not hidden, completely empty on sorcery points, and down more slots than the other guy.  You're now in the action economy crunch -- you have more things you have to do to maintain effectiveness than the other guy.  Even if you swap to straight blasting at this point, it's a race where you're out of your tricks and the other guy hasn't even brought his subclass abilities to bear yet.  Heck, if the other guy is a Diviner, this sinks almost from the get-go.</blockquote>

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