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D&D 5E Aberrant Mind's Psionic Sorcery is officially the most powerful feature.

Hohige

Explorer
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Psionic Sorcery:

"Beginning at 6th level, when you cast any of the spells gained from your Psionic Spells feature, you can cast it by expending a spell slot as normal or by spending a number of sorcery points equal to the spell’s level. If you cast the spell using sorcery points, it requires no components".

Revealed in Tasha, sorcerers (Aberrant Mind and Cloakwork Soul) now have more spells known than wizards prepared spell.
Just like Shadow Sorcerer's The hound of Ill Omem is a Heightein on steroids. Aberrant Mind's Psionic Sorcery is a Subtle Spell with steroids.

Psionic Sorcery + Suggestion is simply undetectable, cannot be counterspellated and it is still possible to add a metamagic effect to it, such as Heightein Spell.
Detect Through is also too useful.


Psionic Sorcery + Suggestion is literally "Fight by my side for 8 hours or 16h (Extended Spell) or 2 creatures (Twin spell)" or any command. In addition to being extremely powerful in magical combat where there is no counterspell and still applies disadvantage on saving throw
 
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Sir Brennen

Adventurer
Where did you find this info? Do you have the book? I don't know how the Psionic Spells feature works. Is Suggestion one of the spells you can select?

Whatever the other features are for this subclass, this 6th level feature sounds like they're capturing the flavor of a psion pretty well.

Side Note: Shadow Sorcerers can also spend sorcery points to cast Darkness.
 

DnD Warlord

Adventurer
Do we know what bonus spells they know, and really the subtle spell is rather limited even at level 20 useing suggestion is what 6 times
 

Hohige

Explorer
Where did you find this info? Do you have the book? I don't know how the Psionic Spells feature works. Is Suggestion one of the spells you can select?

Whatever the other features are for this subclass, this 6th level feature sounds like they're capturing the flavor of a psion pretty well.

Side Note: Shadow Sorcerers can also spend sorcery points to cast Darkness.

Yes, You can swap a spell from Psionic Spell list to a new of Sorcerer/Warlock/Wizard that must be Divination or Enchantment.
It's from Tasha's Aberrant Mind.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
Actions described in spell descriptions are in addition to components. A subtle suggestion spell still rewuires you make the suggestion, it just doesn't blatantly look like magic.

The suggestion must also seem reasonable. "Take 10 gp to be my loyal mercenary" would work on a mercenary, but not on a death knight.
 

jgsugden

Legend
OK - you're worried about a guardsman counterspelling your Suggestion spell? So the inability for it to be countered is game breaking?

Yeah. No. It is nice that it is harder to counterspell some of their spells, but it is not game breaking.
 

Hohige

Explorer
OK - you're worried about a guardsman counterspelling your Suggestion spell? So the inability for it to be countered is game breaking?

Yeah. No. It is nice that it is harder to counterspell some of their spells, but it is not game breaking.

No. the true power here is casting Suggestion with Impunity.
Being totally undetectable.
Low level, cheap and can still apply metamagic (Heightein, Twin, Quicken, Extend).
With Psionic Sorcery. The Aberrant Mind's Dominate Person/Monster can control a creature for 16h, with Impunity.
During a battle a Psionic Sorcery Dominate Person with Heightein Spell can literally win the battle to easily and control that creature for 1 minute. (No counterspelll)

For the enemy party, the creature affected by the Psionic Dominate Person is a traitor and he will start attacking his allies and even he doesn't understand what happened. It is beautiful to control a Barbarian and attack his backline.
Without any evidence of mind control.
 
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NotAYakk

Legend
No. the true power here is casting Suggestion with Impunity.
Being totally undetectable.
Low level, cheap and can still apply metamagic (Heightein, Twin, Quicken, Extend).
With Psionic Sorcery. The Aberrant Mind's Dominate Person/Monster can control a creature for 16h, with Impunity.
During a battle a Psionic Sorcery Dominate Person with Heightein Spell can literally win the battle to easily and control that creature for 1 minute. (No counterspelll)

For the enemy party, the creature affected by the Psionic Dominate Person is a traitor and he will start attacking his allies and even he doesn't understand what happened. It is beautiful to control a Barbarian and attack his backline.
Without any evidence of mind control.
How did you phrase "turn on your allies in the middle of combat" as a reasonable suggestion, out loud?

It isn't totally undetectable. You still have to say the suggestion out loud. Maybe you can get around this with telepathy, but that doesn't get around the "reasonableness" of it.

Dominate person/monaster, on the other hand, almost does what you describe. You still have to tell them what to do (telepathically), or use your action to treat them like a puppet, so they do know that there is something strange going on.
Pulling off 16 hours of concentration would be impressive
Just avoid getting damaged and don't cast another spell requiring concentration.

You can concentrate on spells while doing most anything short of actually sleeping.
 


Hohige

Explorer
It's not undetectable as I would also rule that a simple Wisdom (Insight) check is enough to determine if someone is doing something.
there isn't any direct rule about it on combat.
When you interact with an illusion, requires your action (Investigaion check) to perceive the illusion.
To find something hidden, requires an Search action (Perception check). On combat, all requires your action, unless descripted.
But here, It doesn't have any evidence about mind controlling.
As a DM. You certainly must use your action to roll a Insight check. But, without any evidence, I wouldn't call a Insight check.
 


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
To find something hidden, requires an Search action (Perception check).

Not true. There's passive Perception and Investigation. No reason why there cannot be passive Insight.

But here, It doesn't have any evidence about mind controlling.

People acting outside of normal expected behavior patterns is evidence of mind control.
 

How did you phrase "turn on your allies in the middle of combat" as a reasonable suggestion, out loud?

It isn't totally undetectable. You still have to say the suggestion out loud. Maybe you can get around this with telepathy, but that doesn't get around the "reasonableness" of it.

Dominate person/monaster, on the other hand, almost does what you describe. You still have to tell them what to do (telepathically), or use your action to treat them like a puppet, so they do know that there is something strange going on.

And here's the real issue. It's not Subtle Suggestion that's overpowered, it's people treating Suggestion like it was Improved Dominate Person where you can order them to do whatever absurd thing you please. Which seems to be a distressingly common issue, from the threads you see on the Internet.
 


Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
My understanding is concentration is enough to interrupt short rests as well.
There’s no rule to that effect, and in fact the existence of spells like Hex and Hunter’s Mark that can be concentrated on for 24 hours would seem to counter-indicate this notion. A long rest, on the other hand, would break concentration because it requires sleeping, and you have to be conscious to maintain concentration.
 

Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
No. the true power here is casting Suggestion with Impunity.
Being totally undetectable.
Low level, cheap and can still apply metamagic (Heightein, Twin, Quicken, Extend).
With Psionic Sorcery. The Aberrant Mind's Dominate Person/Monster can control a creature for 16h, with Impunity.
During a battle a Psionic Sorcery Dominate Person with Heightein Spell can literally win the battle to easily and control that creature for 1 minute. (No counterspelll)

For the enemy party, the creature affected by the Psionic Dominate Person is a traitor and he will start attacking his allies and even he doesn't understand what happened. It is beautiful to control a Barbarian and attack his backline.
Without any evidence of mind control.
Aren't you ignoring Dispel Magic in your anti-mind-control scenario. A much more likely course of action in my group would be to observe the party member acting strangely, detect magic on them, and then Dispel it (or use the ability of the Arcane Cleric to do much the same) when you noticed they are under an enchantment.

Just because something can't be counter spelled doesn't mean it can't be stopped.
 

There’s no rule to that effect, and in fact the existence of spells like Hex and Hunter’s Mark that can be concentrated on for 24 hours would seem to counter-indicate this notion.

Indeed. Checking the PHB, the Concentration rules on p203 say nothing about preventing Short Rests, and the Short Rest rules on p186 only say it requires the PC "does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."

This isn't the first time I've seen people confused about Concentration. In fact, at my own table I've had people who need reminders that Concentration doesn't cost an action or impose a penalty to other actions. I don't know if they're conflating it with mechanics in other editions or other systems or what.
 

Hohige

Explorer
There’s no rule to that effect, and in fact the existence of spells like Hex and Hunter’s Mark that can be concentrated on for 24 hours would seem to counter-indicate this notion. A long rest, on the other hand, would break concentration because it requires sleeping, and you have to be conscious to maintain concentration.
Animal shapes is also 24 hours.
Extended Dominate Person/Monster/Suggestion is plausible
 


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