Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
Aberrant Mind's Psionic Sorcery is officially the most powerful feature.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8132105" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>Better, but you've cast Spirit Shroud in a 5th level slot to get +2d6 and now upcasting scorching ray to 5th taps your high level slots for a single go. But, okay, let's look at it. Spirit Shroud's extra damage only occurs within 10' of you. You can't distant that because it's range self. So, your target is within 10' for this combo. You at least paid attention to your CHA score this time, so your ATT isn't terrible for the level, but, depending on the target AC, the value of this combo is varying due to the fact that you're making 6 separate attack rolls -- you're likely to miss a few. </p><p></p><p>On the Empower, it's actually a touch of an interesting question. Empower is the only metamagic that doesn't need to be used when the spell is cast, but instead trips on when the spell rolls damage. The interaction with Scorching Ray and Spirit Shroud is fun, then. I'd be generous and say that 1 point allows you to reroll any damage rolls within a single use of Scorching Ray, but it could easily be that it would be per attack, as that's when Scorching Ray rolls damage. Still, let's go with 1 point for Empowering Scorching Ray. Spirit Shroud, on the other hand, would cost 1 point per hit to empower it, because it does clearly have separate triggers that are being invoked. You can't just Empower it at casting for 1 point and then get the effect over the duration -- that's pretty clear. Also, it wouldn't make sense on a per round basis because it can trip over multiple turns depending on opportunity attacks and other fun. So, it would need to be paid for per use. That's 7 sorcery points if all the rays hit, which is unlikely, so add in a few uses of Unerring Accuracy and you're pretty much tapped in one go.</p><p></p><p>Sure, you could use Favored by the Gods, but I'd save that for defensive reasons -- you might save a reroll cost, but the counter is going to murder you. And that's because, defensively, you're wide open, with poor saves and a terrible armor class. If your opponent is a wizard, you're also hosed by the first level spell shield, which will cripple your alpha strike output (which also has to be within 10', again). You're going to be running low after your alpha, and the counter can target a poor save or just your poor AC. You have a good chance making the concertation check to not lose Spirit Shroud, but it's a risk, and then you'd be out your force mulitplier and down to some limited options for attack.</p><p></p><p>The Stealth route is pretty passive and poor as well, as it relies on the idea that the target just stays there for the punishment. That's a silly plan -- just moving out of your spell range makes you inept, and mind spike isn't that awesome of an attack vector. Also, you can't use it with Spirit Shroud because both are concentration.</p><p></p><p>Again, this is mostly a mess of assuming the target is inept, the situation is optimal for you, exclusively focuses on PVP, and misses a lot of key rules interactions. There's a reason your builds don't already top optimization lists -- they don't work the way you think they do. I mean, the empowered upcast scorching ray? You could have done basically this before with hex on a sorlock or with magic initiate to grab hex. 1d6 less, but that's not the big selling point, really, and it would work very well with range (Hex doesn't require you to be within 10' like Spirit Shroud and it's also not a 5th level cast for 2d6, or 3rd for 1d6). And, yet, it's not a major leader in tactics or builds. Because it's overly expensive and there are more effective options, and also because most builds have to adventure instead of fight single stupid PC opponents in optimum conditions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8132105, member: 16814"] Better, but you've cast Spirit Shroud in a 5th level slot to get +2d6 and now upcasting scorching ray to 5th taps your high level slots for a single go. But, okay, let's look at it. Spirit Shroud's extra damage only occurs within 10' of you. You can't distant that because it's range self. So, your target is within 10' for this combo. You at least paid attention to your CHA score this time, so your ATT isn't terrible for the level, but, depending on the target AC, the value of this combo is varying due to the fact that you're making 6 separate attack rolls -- you're likely to miss a few. On the Empower, it's actually a touch of an interesting question. Empower is the only metamagic that doesn't need to be used when the spell is cast, but instead trips on when the spell rolls damage. The interaction with Scorching Ray and Spirit Shroud is fun, then. I'd be generous and say that 1 point allows you to reroll any damage rolls within a single use of Scorching Ray, but it could easily be that it would be per attack, as that's when Scorching Ray rolls damage. Still, let's go with 1 point for Empowering Scorching Ray. Spirit Shroud, on the other hand, would cost 1 point per hit to empower it, because it does clearly have separate triggers that are being invoked. You can't just Empower it at casting for 1 point and then get the effect over the duration -- that's pretty clear. Also, it wouldn't make sense on a per round basis because it can trip over multiple turns depending on opportunity attacks and other fun. So, it would need to be paid for per use. That's 7 sorcery points if all the rays hit, which is unlikely, so add in a few uses of Unerring Accuracy and you're pretty much tapped in one go. Sure, you could use Favored by the Gods, but I'd save that for defensive reasons -- you might save a reroll cost, but the counter is going to murder you. And that's because, defensively, you're wide open, with poor saves and a terrible armor class. If your opponent is a wizard, you're also hosed by the first level spell shield, which will cripple your alpha strike output (which also has to be within 10', again). You're going to be running low after your alpha, and the counter can target a poor save or just your poor AC. You have a good chance making the concertation check to not lose Spirit Shroud, but it's a risk, and then you'd be out your force mulitplier and down to some limited options for attack. The Stealth route is pretty passive and poor as well, as it relies on the idea that the target just stays there for the punishment. That's a silly plan -- just moving out of your spell range makes you inept, and mind spike isn't that awesome of an attack vector. Also, you can't use it with Spirit Shroud because both are concentration. Again, this is mostly a mess of assuming the target is inept, the situation is optimal for you, exclusively focuses on PVP, and misses a lot of key rules interactions. There's a reason your builds don't already top optimization lists -- they don't work the way you think they do. I mean, the empowered upcast scorching ray? You could have done basically this before with hex on a sorlock or with magic initiate to grab hex. 1d6 less, but that's not the big selling point, really, and it would work very well with range (Hex doesn't require you to be within 10' like Spirit Shroud and it's also not a 5th level cast for 2d6, or 3rd for 1d6). And, yet, it's not a major leader in tactics or builds. Because it's overly expensive and there are more effective options, and also because most builds have to adventure instead of fight single stupid PC opponents in optimum conditions. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
Aberrant Mind's Psionic Sorcery is officially the most powerful feature.
Top