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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9061074" data-attributes="member: 22779">But, none of those things are determined by the narration of the player.&nbsp; All of those things are determined by the die roll.&nbsp; The trap only goes off if they open the trapped thing without disarming the trap.&nbsp; They cannot disarm the trap without the roll.&nbsp; They can write epic length poetry and it still all comes down to that check.&nbsp; The player can describe in intricate detail how they are opening that lock, their body position and whatnot, but, until the dice are rolled, we have no idea if he actually made noise or not. It's not really surprise to be honest.&nbsp; It's more just bafflement.&nbsp; I don't see what you're getting out of it. Remember, you're the one insisting that the player must narrate all this stuff before the check is made.&nbsp;&nbsp; For me, the narration all comes after the check is made.&nbsp; Most of the time narration is defined by the check.&nbsp; Player wants to sneak.&nbsp; Player rolls Stealth.&nbsp; Player rolls spectacularly badly.&nbsp; I, or the player in many cases, narrate that spectacularly bad roll.&nbsp; We do this often for perception checks (I look around.&nbsp; Perception 7.&nbsp; Is this my hand I see before me? ) What's the point of narration before the check is made?&nbsp; You must be constantly retconning narration.&nbsp; &quot;I sneak down the corridor&quot;&nbsp; &quot;Roll - 5&quot; &quot;Uhh, you try to sneak down the corridor but make tons of noise doing so&quot;. I just don't see the value in trying to narrate uncertain results.-----Edit to add.&nbsp; Remember, too, I do have no problem with the player making a declaration and the DM calling for a roll.&nbsp; That happens all the time too.&nbsp; Perfectly understandable.&nbsp; Heck, the player might not know what roll to make.&nbsp; There's lots of times we've discussed as a group what would be the most appropriate check.&nbsp; But, in any case, the DM calling for a roll after narration is fine.&nbsp; But, it's also fine for the player to simply roll and ask for narration from the DM as well.They're all just tools in the box.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 9061074, member: 22779"] But, none of those things are determined by the narration of the player. All of those things are determined by the die roll. The trap only goes off if they open the trapped thing without disarming the trap. They cannot disarm the trap without the roll. They can write epic length poetry and it still all comes down to that check. The player can describe in intricate detail how they are opening that lock, their body position and whatnot, but, until the dice are rolled, we have no idea if he actually made noise or not. It's not really surprise to be honest. It's more just bafflement. I don't see what you're getting out of it. Remember, you're the one insisting that the player must narrate all this stuff before the check is made. For me, the narration all comes after the check is made. Most of the time narration is defined by the check. Player wants to sneak. Player rolls Stealth. Player rolls spectacularly badly. I, or the player in many cases, narrate that spectacularly bad roll. We do this often for perception checks (I look around. Perception 7. Is this my hand I see before me? ) What's the point of narration before the check is made? You must be constantly retconning narration. "I sneak down the corridor" "Roll - 5" "Uhh, you try to sneak down the corridor but make tons of noise doing so". I just don't see the value in trying to narrate uncertain results. ----- Edit to add. Remember, too, I do have no problem with the player making a declaration and the DM calling for a roll. That happens all the time too. Perfectly understandable. Heck, the player might not know what roll to make. There's lots of times we've discussed as a group what would be the most appropriate check. But, in any case, the DM calling for a roll after narration is fine. But, it's also fine for the player to simply roll and ask for narration from the DM as well. They're all just tools in the box. [/QUOTE]

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