UngeheuerLich
Legend
i seriously do find it hard to believe
Ability Scores As Core
- Thread starter Mercurius
- Start date
Then cap character advancement at 10th level or so.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
no.
I find it floating eyeball monsters and 10 ton reptiles flying on flimsy wings hard to believe. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be in the game.
Likewise, you find super strong fighters hard to believe, because you seem to be stuck in the notion that they aren't magic.
In essence, You want wholly mundane sword and sorcery fighters who are constrained by what you recognize as human limitations. I want Hercules.
Now operating under the assumption that stats will be increasing over the course of a characters career, your way precludes the characters that I want, while my way includes the characters that you want, as well as the characters I want.
In other words, your way is exclusionary, while mine is inclusive.
Give me one good reason that you would say no to that.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
It is interesting how much you read into my posts. It is my personal preference.
You told me to stop at level 10, and although I indeed usually play level 10 and below, I don´t want to be told to stop there.
So my answer was: "no"
Because I need to wait to hang up my clothes, i will elaborate on it.
I believe, that while it is ok for some very special characters to become as strong as giants, I don´t think EVERY fighter should be forced to become like hercules.
I really believe there are other types of epic fighters.
So while I don´t want to deny you the possibility to advance your strength to giant levels, the average fighter should not do so. As a result I just don´t want fighters to add 10 points of strength by default until level 30.
I could instead imagine a paragon path, epic destiny or prestige class giving you a great bonus to strength based checks, or even a straight increase to strength, depending how ability scores factor into the attack bonus (i guess the effect will be reduced compared to 3rd or 4th edition).
So tell me, how is your way more inclusive than mine? I allow different kind of epic fighters.
Got me there. The method that you outlined would indeed allow for both.
However, I do think that in order for martial types to be tenable at epic levels as a concept, they need to exceed mortal capacity in some way.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
No disagreement here 
This is actually why I support the idea of mutable flavor in the game.
People take umbrage at the idea of knocking an ooze or a serpentine creature prone in 4E, but if you look at the PURPOSE for the prone effect, it's to rob the target of a move action. I can easily see hitting an ochre jelly so hard that it splatters and has to take a second to reconstitute itself.
Likewise, the purpose of the teleportation effect is moving from one point to another instantly, or at least moving so quickly that no one can react to it. I can see an epic level martial character pulling off something like this with the speed of her own legs, or jumping 100 feet into the air, or slicing through a stone pillar like a carrot.
WheresMyD20
First Post
I don't have a problem if an epic level fighter is as strong as a giant due to magic (using belt of giant strength or something like that). However, having human characters of any level be naturally as strong as a giant bends common sense too far for me. Same goes for humans being faster than a cheetah, tougher than an elephant, etc. There should be some reasonable upper limit to what the human body is naturally capable of.
Why should there be?
D&D takes place in Imagination Land, not earth. There is no precedent for determining exactly how physics works in Imagination Land, nor for exactly what the human (mortal) body is capable of. Who's to say that human potential isn't far greater in Imagination Land then it is on plain old earth?
Also, who's to say that Fighter-types aren't magical? They might not be able to fly around, or sling fireballs...but the feats they accomplish are pretty superheroic regardless. This has been true in western fantasy, wuxia, comics and in the game. Perhaps martial magic is something that is internalized and instinctual? Why should fight-y guys amazing strength and skill come from trinkets, rather than transcending mortal limits through courage and deeds?
In order for the epic level sword swining guy concept to be tenable, we have to get rid of the notion that these are just normal guys. These are Gilgamesh, Hercules, John Carter, Brynhildr, etc.
