About Contingency

[Berk]

Problem is, that's where I draw the line. The spell description is just too imprecise, both in its timing and in what conditions are legit. We could go on debating forever, without an official ruling.

The spell description states it very well when it happens. Here is what the spell says about when it goes off. "In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the second spell, the latter being "cast" instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur."

What's that mean? Well whenever the trigger is met the second spell, the spell that was cast while you were casting contingency, goes off immediately. I can't see what is so hard to understand about the wording of that. =o)

 

[Pax]

contingencies are worthless one dispel magic and there by-by. Dispels are so common by the time contingencies exst IMC most contingencies are a waste of an expensive amterial component. The best one so far has been teleport to X if I'm the target of or caught in the area of effect of a dispel. Or my favorite if I'm ever caught by surprise teleport me to X.

Contingent DISPEL, in counterspell-mode, "If I am targetted or otherwise affected by a Dispel effect" ... heh.

 

[jmucchiello]

As I said in the other thread, Spellcraft can be used to predict the spell being cast by a simple die roll even if the spell is quickened. If you could not identify a spell while it was being cast there would be no way to counterspell. Ever.

Contingency knows what you know. You know a spell is being cast. You probably identify the spell reflexively. The contingency now knows what you know and works to save your bacon.

How does it know the level of the spell? Simple. All 9th level spells take 18 pages in a spellbook. All of them. Even if you write small. Thus, something about spell formulas is fixed. Since this is fixed then the level of the spell is probably also obvious in the casting.

 

[Vexed]

I remember reading where you could only use up to third level spells regarding contingency?

 

[Zappo]

You can use spells up to sixth level with Chain Contingency, but that's not the point. The 9th level spell is not the spell Contingency is supposed to cast; it's the condition under which it will be triggered.

The contingency can undoubtedly be fast enough to trigger after the opponent starts casting the 9th level spell and before the 9th level spell actually goes off. The problem is that to do so it has to make a Spellcraft check. Though jmucchiello's interpretation could work as a house rule, officially you can't tell a spell level as it is being cast without Spellcraft.

And if contingency knows what I know, this means that I have to make the Spellcraft check, or it won't activate. Can you make a Spellcraft check if you haven't prepared an action? Also, this means that if the caster is looking another way, or I'm invisible while I cast the 9th level spell, the Contingency won't trigger.

 

[bret]

contingencies are worthless one dispel magic and there by-by. Dispels are so common by the time contingencies exst IMC most contingencies are a waste of an expensive amterial component. The best one so far has been teleport to X if I'm the target of or caught in the area of effect of a dispel. Or my favorite if I'm ever caught by surprise teleport me to X.

Contingency has an expensive focus. The material components shouldn't be that expensive.

As for Dispel Magic, it takes an 11th level wizard to cast the spell. You have just started to pull ahead of what Dispel Magic can do, and each level increases the chances of it failing. Opponents should start needing to go to Greater Dispelling at about 14th level or so, rolling D20+10 vs. 25 is starting to become a little difficult, only a 30% chance of success.

 

[Vexed]

"You can use spells up to sixth level with Chain Contingency, but that's not the point." -Zappo

Ok fair enough. I got out my Tomb/Blood book pg 86 and read the spell. It states, as the spell contingency but you get three other spells upon your person. However, nothing about them being up to 6th level. Was this in errata or some update?
Thanks for your time on this.

J

 

[Zappo]

From the SRD, Contingency:
The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects the character's person (feather fall, levitate, fly, teleport, and so forth) and be of a spell level no higher than one-third the character's caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level).

Actually, I was wrong with my reference to Chain Contingency. You can use spells up to 6th even with normal Contingency.

 

[ashockney]

Big 3rd Ed changes...

I'm going to guess some of the posters on here played using 1st and/or 2nd Ed. Or worse, using the modified FR spells from Greenwood and Co. that allowed for all kinds of "hanging" and "contingent" and "held" and "multi-layered" effects! I think the 3rd Ed version of Contingency is intended to be VERY different from it's predecessors. It's still a good, viable spell however. Think of contingency as a "free action" bonus defense spell. It takes very little to trigger it, however, you must state a clear and specific trigger. Therefore, contingency is not intended as a "countering" measure or action. You can't contingent dispel, nor can you contigent teleport to prevent or save you from damage. You can, instead get a free teleport off, at the end of a full round of action (ie, contingent to a single word) Therefore, it's more like this...I'm hasted, I cast my main spell, my hasted spell, my quickened spell...and my contingent teleport whisks me away! The closest thing I could justify as a DM, which would allow contingency to "prevent" an effect would be with the "feather fall" or fly contingencies. How does a spell know when you're falling, or when you've fallen 30 feet? I'm not sure, but it certainly isn't unbalanced in this situation. Another key use for contingency is to get off that first...always cast...defense spell (like Stoneskin). Contingent, when I say "blah" which activates my staff, cast mirror image on me. This saves you a step in the process, and makes you more prepared for the encounter. Sweet. The spell is still useful, just not supremely powerful.

 

[Pax]

Re: Big 3rd Ed changes...

I'm going to guess some of the posters on here played using 1st and/or 2nd Ed. Or worse, [...]

You make experience with prior editions sound like a sin one should be ashamed to admit to.

Why is that?

Contingency is simple; don't ask how it knows something, you simply describe basic conditions that set off the contingent spell. Being targetted by a Dispel effect is something you could react to with a Readied action, so I see no reason why you should notbe able to use Contingency + Dispel Magic (counterspell mode) together to counter it.

As for layered effects: that's what Chain Contingency is for. Nothing says you cannot have the lower-level, original Contingency spell in the three-spell-chain, either. Chain Contingency [Fireshield, Contingency, Fireshield] lets you have a contingent Fireshield, which is then replaced, with a new contingent Fireshield.

I don't see how such would be unbalancing. In fact, I see it as a creative, nonmunchkin application of the spell (after all, you could instead Chain Contingency [Energy Immunity: Fire, uber-metamagicked Fireball on yourself, uber-metamagicked Fireball on yourself] ...).