AC: melee rangers and warlocks

[jasin]

Do melee rangers and warlocks suffer a significant lag in AC at later levels?

Every other class/build either has heavy armour, or has reason to increase a stat that applies to AC. Obviously, the AC of a tactical warlord with starting Int 16 will still be behind that of the rogue with starting Dex 19, but the gap will stay more or less the same.

With melee rangers and warlocks, it appears to me that the gap will widen noticeably (unless they invest in a tertiary stat, which brings it's own problems).

Then again, I am discounting powers here. I know rangers have at least some powers along the lines of "you attack me, I shift out of the way". Is it enough to counter the AC lag?

Has anybody played enough to confirm or deny this?

 

[Alabast]

The improvment in AC from an attribute raising is minimal, and nonexistent for characters wearing heavy armor. Rangers and Warlocks (Not to mention rogues and wizards) are supposed to have a lower AC than Defenders and Leaders, as they are not supposed to be on the front line as much. Even a melee ranger needs to be mobile to succeed, and receives the toughness feat as insurance in case he can't.

 

[Victim]

Warlocks tend to have INT as a secondary stat.

Rangers who don't plan on investing in much DEX are often wise to have at least 13 CON for Scale. And Stormwardens are pretty DEX intensive.

 

[Nail]

Do melee rangers and warlocks suffer a significant lag in AC at later levels?

If you do the math (which I'm betting you have) the answer is "Yes".

To have the best AC, you have two (obvious) choices:

• Heavy Armor + Heavy Shield,
• Use Hide armor, Heavy Shield, and pump Int or Dex at every opportunity

Then add defensive feats to taste. I prefer Shield Specialization.

Every other option lowers your AC. If your class doesn't have Dex (or Int) as a primary or secondary attribute, then you should (at least consider to) go with heavy armor + heavy shield.

Two weapon defense and the defensive weapon property doesn't make up for th' lag.

 

[jasin]

The improvment in AC from an attribute raising is minimal, and nonexistent for characters wearing heavy armor.

The improvement from stats is 4 over 30 levels, exactly like the advantage of heavy masterwork armour over light masterwork armour. Which means that light armour + raising Dex/Int improves at about the same rate as heavy armour. So everyone starts at different places (just Int for wizards, Dex + leather for rogues, scale + shield for fighters, plate + shield for paladins...) but they improve at much the same rate... except the melee rangers.

Rangers and Warlocks (Not to mention rogues and wizards) are supposed to have a lower AC than Defenders and Leaders, as they are not supposed to be on the front line as much.

And yet the rogues' and wizards' AC will go up as their Int and Dex goes up, while the rangers' won't.

 

[jasin]

Warlocks tend to have INT as a secondary stat.

I was thinking either Cha primary, Con secondary, or the inverse, but I suppose you're right, a more careful selection of powers might leave the other attack stat almost irrelevant.

 

[Mengu]

Melee Ranger will typically get two weapon defense, which helps a little. They can use a defensive weapon, for a little more. And it's not too much to invest 1 or 2 points into dexterity somewhere along their career. High wisdom is good, but it has diminishing returns. The difference between shifting 4 squares and shifting 5 squares, or doing 4 extra points or 5 extra points of damage is not such a big deal. Those 3 points and the 1 or 2 points from masterwork armor will make up for most of the difference.

And as mentioned, they don't have to make up all the difference because they are not defenders.

As for Warlocks, their AC typically starts lower than everyone else, and remains that way. Fortunately they have means of staying back, or becoming invisible, or getting temporary hitpoints or other defensive bonuses. They are somewhat like the Barbarian in this aspect.

 

[nittanytbone]

Warlocks want INT, and many will start with ~16 and then pump it at every opportunity. This puts them only a point or two behind rogues and wizards.

Melee Rangers that want to pump WIS through the roof should ensure that they start with CON sufficient to get at least Chain proficiency. In fact, starting with 14 CON isn't too expensive and allows for scale prof at paragon tier with the free stat bump and an extra healing surge at epic. Of course, this does steer you towards using hammers or axes.