AC penalty to reflex save and initiative? Good or bad?

[dwayne]

I thought that the AC penalty should apply to reflex saves and initiative. Now I may be alone here because I cannot remember any one saying any thing about something like this before. So I am asking all of you out there do you think this is a good idea or just all-together bad?

 

[Stalker0]

The system is already set up where the typical heavy armor guys have crappy reflex saves....so hurting them worse is no thanks

 

[Crothian]

it will make it really hard for the people that are flat footed to have a chance to go first. Those first turn fireballs could be devasting since without the dex for the reflex save most will miss it.

 

[dwayne]

The system is already set up where the typical heavy armor guys have crappy reflex saves....so hurting them worse is no thanks

Yes that’s right but they have to hit points to take the damage plus I think that armor giving huge bonuses to ac because I here the fighters always say full plate is the best but i think that to prevent over use of this and other heavy armor it would be better. Because if you are in side of full plate or chain mail its vary heavy and hard to move in right so why give the fighters all this AC and protection when they have nothing to balance it out. Ok the penalty on dex big deal just find an armor that will let you use your max, and lbs well they are fighter so strength is there main thing so this dose nothing to slow them down. I think that this Idea is a sound one because you are not able to move as quickly as some one in leather and as for there low refax saves well that is a matter of training and class as well as there ability to use armor. Now there are ways to improve there armor penalty and the good pert is that its all ready in the game and makes those armor powers more valuable as well as feats so there you have it. Don't think I am bashing fighters I am just saying that in history and fantasy how many times have you seen the hero wear full plate an heavy armor and were not a knight not that many.

 

[Aaron2]

Don't think I am bashing fighters I am just saying that in history and fantasy how many times have you seen the hero wear full plate an heavy armor and were not a knight not that many.

I'm not sure what knights have to do with any of this.

Anyway, full plate is only useful to those with a Dex of 12 or less which isn't many people (and hardly any of them aren't fighters or clerics). Applying the armor check penalty to reflex saves will only make heavy armor an even tougher sell. If that what you want (i.e. no one wearing heavy armor) then what you have suggested is a way of doing it.

Aaron

 

[sfedi]

Ditto.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

One thing I do in my games is that if you're non proficient with the armor the check penalty applies to reflex saves.

But what you're suggesting might not be a good idea. And I don't see why'd it hurt initiative.

 

[dwayne]

One thing I do in my games is that if you're non proficient with the armor the check penalty applies to reflex saves.

But what you're suggesting might not be a good idea. And I don't see why'd it hurt initiative.

Looking back and rethinking what had said I would have to say the initiative part my not be a good idea that is going to depend on the weapon used if I can find a speed factor system that’s not too overly complex

 

[Halivar]

I think the first question a DM needs to ask themselves before applying a rule is this: yeah, it makes real-world sense, and yeah, the concept is cool.. but... is it necessary? Is the game really broken without it? Will applying this rule fix it if it is?

As DM, you're the boss, but remember that just because you can rule zero doesn't necessarily mean you should. In this case, Ref saves are pretty well balanced for full armor types. I defy anyone to build a plate + high Ref save character. If you add another penalty, you might was well say, "Fighters don't get reflex saves. Period."

I can find a speed factor system that’s not too overly complex

No! Bad DM! No cookie!