Academic Plague in gaming

[Darkness]

D&D is no better fundamentally than Exalted, because both are just games. Only D&D (and most of its players) knows that, while Exalted (and most of its players) live under the delusion that because Exalted is pretentious they're actually smart for playing it, and better than the rest of us.

Please stop claiming you know what 'most' Exalted players think. 'cause you obviously don't.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

Well, its a start...

now we just need to get the couple of hundred drooling fanboys on RPGnet to stoop to admit that Exalted is in no way better than D20, and we're set.

Nisarg

Well, to start with, treat them with some respect. Then, after that, you need to get off your high horse and realize that in some ways Exalted is better than D20. It might not be better all the time, it might not be better in all ways. But it does have things that it does better than D20.

And, by way of anecdotal evidence, my best, and longest running game is in Exalted. Perhaps it does do something right that hasn't happened elsewhere. And if you ever want to discuss why, I'd be happy to.

 

[ThoughtBubble]

Hardly. I'm saying they're all games. That no game is "art" or "culture" or "literature" or "deeply philosophical"; the only thing that might make a game inferior is if its designer or players actually fool themselves into thinking it is.
D&D is no better fundamentally than Exalted, because both are just games. Only D&D (and most of its players) knows that, while Exalted (and most of its players) live under the delusion that because Exalted is pretentious they're actually smart for playing it, and better than the rest of us.
Like I said, Exalted could actually be some fun if it wasn't for the nobs who play it.

Nobilis could have been a mildly interesting amberesque game if it wasn't for the fact that its been hijacked into being nothing more than a vehicle for people show off their intelligence on RPGnet because they play it.

I mean, its pretty pathetic that anyone actually believes that they're engaged in "art" by playing RPGs, yet I've had people argue with me that that RPGs are art, literature, drama, philosophy, and that they're saving the world by playing rpgs.

People need to get over themselves.

I'll do so when you do.

Games aren't art? I don't know about you, but half the fun is tapping into my literary and dramatic background to make the games more interesting. And I know all of the people who were/are into theater that I play with feel the same way. It sure as **** might not be fine art, it might not be classical art, but it's distinctly artistic and tapping into that artistic part of the brain.

Though I'm thinking it's time to get out of this thread.

 

[Mallus]

I mean, its pretty pathetic that anyone actually believes that they're engaged in "art" by playing RPGs, yet I've had people argue with me that that RPGs are art, literature, drama, philosophy, and that they're saving the world by playing rpgs.

You do realize that your first point is completely unrelated to your second, right? What people feel about an activity or artwork is seperate from the issue of how they feel about themselves...

There's an enormous difference between saying 'I think X is a work of art" and "I'm better than you because I like X".

Your imply that nothing should be viewed as great/important/meaningful/shiny because someone might come along and rub your nose in the fact they like it and you don't...

 

[Nisarg]

You do realize that your first point is completely unrelated to your second, right? What people feel about an activity or artwork is seperate from the issue of how they feel about themselves...

There's an enormous difference between saying 'I think X is a work of art" and "I'm better than you because I like X".

Your imply that nothing should be viewed as great/important/meaningful/shiny because someone might come along and rub your nose in the fact they like it and you don't...

No, not at all. You can view playing RPGs as personally meaningful to you, as fun, as a chance to be with friends, people you care about, as entertainment, etc.

But when you start making it into something its not, ie. something of artistic, literary, philosophical, or even global significance; that's a pretty clear sign that by viewing it in that way you are actually trying to create a meaning in your life that you do not have.
You are trying to imply that you are more worthwhile and doing worthwhile things as a person by role-playing.
This is unhealthy because its a natural justification to avoid actually going out and doing worthwhile things; those of us who correctly see RPGs as nothing more than fun can afford to do so because we are engaged in other pursuits that provide us with meaning.

Nisarg

 

[Turjan]

That was precisely my point, and according to you and Patrick I have proved it.

Which should correctly read:

That was precisely my point, and according to you and Patrick I have not proved anything.

 

[OregonGM]

Well, its a start...

now we just need to get the couple of hundred drooling fanboys on RPGnet (snip)
Nisarg

I think this is why some folks are having a hard time finding your point. The above is repeated so many times in slightly different ways that I suspect your issue is not with bad game design, but with a flamewar you lost.

If it helps, I agree with your point that "Bad games are bad", but I disagree that bad games will take over the world and eat your pets. If a game designer wants to show off his vocabulary so that his rules read like classic ToEE flavor text, so be it.

For the record; I don't play Amber, have heard of Nobilis only in passing, and don't frequent RPGnet.

Now then, I want you to show me, on this doll, where the bad pro-Nobilis poster touched you.

 

[Mallus]

Once more, with feeling...

You can view playing RPGs as personally meaningful to you, as fun, as a chance to be with friends, people you care about, as entertainment, etc.

Gee, thanks

But when you start making it into something its not, ie. something of artistic, literary, philosophical, or even global significance; that's a pretty clear sign that by viewing it in that way you are actually trying to create a meaning in your life that you do not have.

Or its a clear sign that I enjoy different things than you.

You are trying to imply that you are more worthwhile and doing worthwhile things as a person by role-playing.

If I were trying to imply that I'm more worthwhile than you, I'd start off by saying 'I'm more worthwhile than you...'

This is unhealthy because its a natural justification to avoid actually going out and doing worthwhile things

I have no idea what you're talking about here. Weren't we discussing games?

...those of us who correctly see RPGs as nothing more than fun can afford to do so because we are engaged in other pursuits that provide us with meaning.

Some people think art/philosophy/critical discourse is fun. Some people even mix that kind of stuff into their RPG's. Go figure...

 

[Henry]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I've released one warning in one similar thread, and thought I'd repeat it here. First, I'm thankful to everyone who is turning out cool discussion topic and thoughtful rebuttals to one another; second, I'm concerned about the ever-increasing agitation underlying some of the posts in this and related threads. Let's please be more considerate of one another before someone starts outright sniping and flame wars, and we have to start closing threads.

Thanks to all for listening.

Henry

 

[Teflon Billy]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I've released one warning in one similar thread, and thought I'd repeat it here. First, I'm thankful to everyone who is turning out cool discussion topic and thoughtful rebuttals to one another; second, I'm concerned about the ever-increasing agitation underlying some of the posts in this and related threads. Let's please be more considerate of one another before someone starts outright sniping and flame wars, and we have to start closing threads.

Thanks to all for listening.

Henry

I could post more Exalted pre-Fight dialogue....