Academic Studies Recent Edition Wars

[Jack99]

Do you have any links or references?

Are you really a new member? Because it has been linked and quoted a gazillion times. So many times that I didn't think a link was needed to convince someone that it wasn't just a number I was pulling out of my behind.

 

[carmachu]

I find the conclusion in 4.4 that with 4E, WotC may have "created their own competition" rather strange. You could argue that was a result of the OGL in 3E, where publishers published self-contained RPGs using the license, and that's one reason they wanted to move away from that degree of openness. It's also strange considering the admission in the next paragraph that the 3PPs have a "tiny market".

But in effect, WOTC DID create its own competitors via the GSL, for without it Pathfinder wouldnt have come about, among other things.

 

[malraux]

That said, at lower levels, I think it's a very good approximation of BRP horror, but at high levels it falls into the "every character is an unstoppable combat badass" trap.

Well, aside from the fort save every time you take damage or die...

 

[ggroy]

Are you really a new member?

Insulting me is not going to further convince me of your assertion.

Because it has been linked and quoted a gazillion times. So many times that I didn't think a link was needed to convince someone that it wasn't just a number I was pulling out of my behind.

I would like to read the original legal complaint documents myself, and possibly the original study which determined that 6-7 million D&D players figure (or at least whatever sections have been published publicly).

I don't take these figures at face value.

 

[carmachu]

I'll give free XP to anyone who comes up with an even semi plausible explanation of how this could be done. Its contract law, not witchery.

Continuiously sue even if you cant win and bankrupt the other party or until they cant defend themselves anymore. Thats generally what larger corporations do.

They do actually have to win. They just have to outlast the other party.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

Wrong. Get your facts straight and try again

Educate me, then
<shrugs>

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

Continuiously sue even if you cant win and bankrupt the other party or until they cant defend themselves anymore. Thats generally what larger corporations do.

Companies that do this risk alienating their fan base... Specially in such a small market such as pen and paper RPGs

WotC/Hasbro would be foolish to do such a thing for such a small payoff

 

[malraux]

Companies that do this risk alienating their fan base... Specially in such a small market such as pen and paper RPGs

WotC/Hasbro would be foolish to do such a thing for such a small payoff

They also risk pissing off judges, having their lawyers disbarred, penalties applied, etc.

 

[jdrakeh]

Well, aside from the fort save every time you take damage or die...

The rules that you allude to aren't actually in the CoC d20 rule book. Perhaps your Keeper was using house rules?

There is a Massive Damage rule, but it isn't applicable every time that a PC takes damage — only if they take more than 10 damage as the result of a single attack. That said, yes, this is the one thing can undo a high level CoC d20 character.

There is no Fortitude save for Dying in CoC d20. There is a 1d10 chance to stabilize after being reduced to zero Hit Points, but this mechanic actually helps the PCs survive, as opposed to hastening their demise. A successful Heal check automatically stabilizes them.

And, of course, none of that prevents a high level CoC d20 character from hitting almost every time in combat (or being almost impossible to hit in combat).

Frex, a 15th level Defense Option character has Base Save Bonuses of +5, +9, and +9, with two attacks per round — the first with a Base Attack Bonus of +7 and the second with a Base Attack Bonus of +2, respectively.

A 15th level Offense Option charcter, OTOH, has Base Save Bonuses of +5, +5, and +9, with three attacks per round — the first with a Base Attack Bonus of +12, the second with a Base Attack Bonus of +7, and the third with a base attack bonus of +2, respectively.

By level 15, Stephen Hawking would have 18 Core skill ranks and 7 feats — all of which I assume would be Skill Emphasis. This is the one feat in CoC d20 that boosts skills — and it only grants a +3 bonus to one skill for each time it is taken. It does not stack and may not be purchased for a single skill multiple times. I'll be generous and assume an Intelligence rating of 18, which grants a +4 bonus to all knowledge skills.

This still wouldn't be enough to cover the fields of Hawking's multiple degrees, both honorary and official, while modeling his insight into such things. And our character is already into the deadly combatant range if he's an Offense Option character. If he's a Defense Option character, he's already very hard to hit.

I think this is how AB came up with the Stephen Hawking Badass Build at Level 20. There simply aren't any feats in the game that allow one to build up lots of knowledge skill without also taking lots of levels (which, in turn, results in lots of combat bonuses).

As I said before, none of this is an issue at lower levels, but only the Massive Damage rule stands between high level CoC d20 characters and super-heroics (and, even that doesn't post too much threat once you're boasting high Base Save Bonuses).

 

[malraux]

The rules that you allude to aren't actually in the CoC d20 rule book. Perhaps your Keeper was using house rules?

There is a Massive Damage rule, but it isn't applicable every time that a PC takes damage — only if they take more than 10 damage as the result of a single attack. That said, yes, this is the one thing can undo a high level CoC d20 character.

10 damage at level 15 is pretty common. A shoggoth lord (a CR 15 creature) has a +20/+15/+10 Attack (1d6+7 damage) with an engulf power (opposed grapple check to avoid) that does at least 13 damage every round. So yes, while you don't save or die on every single hit, at the higher levels you are going to be making fort saves pretty regularly anyway.

In the one modern campaign I played, the massive damage rule quickly led me to realize that your HP don't matter near as much as your ability to not get hit and to make fort saves regularly.