Academic Studies Recent Edition Wars

[Keefe the Thief]

As a scholar, all i can say to that article is: i cry for acamedic standards of citing sources and research. By all what is holy, that was painful.

 

[ggroy]

What I had in mind was what happened to Gary Gygax, when he and GDW was sued by TSR over Dangerous Journeys.

Dangerous Journeys - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Kyngdoms • View topic - The Ultimate Gary Gygax Interview

In the above Gygax interview, he mentions:

"Three separate law firms reviewed the complaint filed by TSR and assessed it as one of the sort used by a larger company to force a smaller one out of business."

 

[GMforPowergamers]

In the above Gygax interview, he mentions:

"Three separate law firms reviewed the complaint filed by TSR and assessed it as one of the sort used by a larger company to force a smaller one out of business."

so again I have no real legal know here...

in theory if I were rich (Wait let me day dream) I could sue my local corner store for anything, and if I threw enough money at it force them out of buisness???
Again I know I am unskilled here but it sounds to me to be way false...Even I know there are safe guards where you can have cases thrown out if there is no case...

You need some legal leg to stand on...

 

[ggroy]

It's that kind of copyright paranoia litigation that people get twitchy about with doomsday scenario theories regarding WotC.

The main doomsday scenario I can think of offhand for Hasbro/WotC becoming very litigious, would be if several OGL products become extremely popular and makes significantly more money than WotC's main rpg product lines of 4E D&D or subsequent editions (ie. 5E).

For example, a scenario of Pathfinder PFRPG becoming the #1 best selling rpg and making more profits than WotC's 4E D&D line of products. Though in this hypothetical scenario, I would guess that Paizo and Hasbro/WotC may possibly settle out of court with Hasbro/WotC acquiring Paizo and rebranding Pathfinder as the new 5E D&D.

 

[ggroy]

so again I have no real legal know here...

in theory if I were rich (Wait let me day dream) I could sue my local corner store for anything, and if I threw enough money at it force them out of buisness???
Again I know I am unskilled here but it sounds to me to be way false...Even I know there are safe guards where you can have cases thrown out if there is no case...

You need some legal leg to stand on...

That certainly won't stop an irrational litigious rich guy from launching frivolous lawsuits against someone. I suppose one could try getting the irrational litigious rich guy's attorneys disbarred for attorney misconduct
of some sort, or countersuing the irrational litigious rich guy and their attorneys for harassment and/or frivolous litigation.

Frivolous litigation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jaerdaph]

Part of me hopes that this so-called academic journal was recently created as a joke just to showcase this one article. So many folks in the edition war threads are screaming for credentials from anyone who posts any opinion (which is utterly ridiculous in itself on a public message board), I could see teh funny of doing something like this.

"See? The research conclusively shows that 4e sucks!"

If this is the case, then you got me! I've been punk'd!

 

[ST]

It is something editorially reviewed, and published under their name. Thus the personal tone and scarcity of references would seem to be acceptable. The inaccuracy and incoherence, on the other hand, would recommend against putting something like this anywhere in a publication that hopes to be taken seriously.

From the website of the journal's organizing body (Organization for Transformative Works):

"The Organization for Transformative Works is run for fans by fans. The directors of OTW's board are all active in fandom, as are the hundreds of other people serving on committees and working as volunteers."

In this context, "Transformative works and cultures" literally means "fanworks and fandom". It is technically an academic journal, for what it's worth, but the online-only journal of a fandom organization doesn't really have any more claim to authority than a plain old blog.

This context is pretty helpful in unpacking the author's agenda in that article, as well -- it certainly explains why the argument is "Fans doing OGL stuff fight the corporate power", because that's right in line with the stated purpose of the journal's parent organization, to help fans do just that. Considering that one of the things the parent organization does is offer legal counsel and assistance to fanfic authors and the like faced with copyright violation suits, it smells a little like "If I advance this particular argument, I'm sure to get this op-ed published", which may or may not be true but is interesting to ponder.

Heck, even "real" academic journals often have little claim to authority. Journals exist so people can get published -- when there aren't enough journals for academics to get published in, they do just make more.

 

[Fifth Element]

This appears on every thread about the OGL or GSl, and IT'S WRONG IN EVERY FREAKING ONE. GOOD CHRIST, every one of those threads, right after that accusation is made, shows how, oh wait, no, it was actually stated "Hah hah if a developer can reprint the 3e rules and make money, man, go for it." So that's what Monogoose did. And yet people continue to point at it and claim this was badwrong and how WotC hates them for it. Despite that being the opposite of what actually happened.

Read my post in the best light, as you should generally do on message boards, and you'll see the unintended consequence was that they would actually make money doing it. No hate by WotC is implied, just an "oops, we probably shouldn't do that again."

 

[Fifth Element]

In this context, "Transformative works and cultures" literally means "fanworks and fandom". It is technically an academic journal, for what it's worth, but the online-only journal of a fandom organization doesn't really have any more claim to authority than a plain old blog.

This is true, but they are using the pretense of being an academic journal. There must be a reason for that.

I'm the editor for the Society for International Hockey Research's Hockey Research Journal. It's basically a journal of hockey history and analysis for fans, by fans (although some of these fans are professional writers). If I were to allow a screed similar to this one to be published, it would not go over well. We're presumably a larger journal, we even have a print edition, but we make no pretense of being an academic journal (no real peer review, etc). But we still have higher editorial standards, apparently.

 

[Dausuul]

What I had in mind was what happened to Gary Gygax, when he and GDW was sued by TSR over Dangerous Journeys.

Dangerous Journeys - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Kyngdoms • View topic - The Ultimate Gary Gygax Interview

In the above Gygax interview, he mentions:

"Three separate law firms reviewed the complaint filed by TSR and assessed it as one of the sort used by a larger company to force a smaller one out of business."

(Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.)

Sure, such lawsuits exist and are used, but you have to have some basis for the suit. At the very least, you have to have a coherent allegation of wrongdoing - you must be able to state what the defendant did and why it was illegal to do it. You can't just haul a guy up in front of a judge and say, "He done me wrong."

In this case, you'd have to have a clause in the OGL that you could accuse the defendant of violating, and be able to explain how you claim the defendant violated it. (Not necessarily prove the violation, that's what the trial is for, but you do have to be able to say what the violation was. And I'm fairly sure there are measures available to the defendant to counter claims which are patently false, e.g., you say a book contains a direct transcript of the Mind Flayer entry in the 3E Monster Manual, the defendant can produce the respective books and show that there is no such transcript.)