Accountability

[Alzrius]

I think this entire issue of accountability is a bad one. As far as I can see, there is no upside to what people are suggesting about this.

Honestly, people, what does Morrus posting an itemized list of expenditures do? Think about it. We have no say in the administrative policies of this website. That means our ability to spend the site's money (and make no mistake, after we sent it in, it is the site's money, not ours) is nil. We have no input on how the money gets spent, or when, or for what.

This entire accountability issue amounts to one thing: It's a "feel good" tactic. It supposedly makes us feel better because we know where the money is going. But really, it doesn't make any difference. It really doesn't. Whether we have a list of receipts or not, the site will still be displaying news, a large set of message boards, an online shop, etc.

The only substantive effects I can see from this are two things: 1) Morrus gets flooded with mails and messages from people who are upset with his spendings, thinking they know better than what he did or will do. No benefits there. 2) Morrus, who already works damn hard running this site for us, adds yet another thing to do on top of his pile of work...and this one for no good reason. No benefit there either.

You are, ultimately, only accountable to the people who you serve or work for. The people who have power over you. And while I believe this site is for us and about us, its Morrus who is the backbone of it, and while he voluntarily serves us, he does not answer to us. Any idea of fiscal accountability is a bad one.

 

[Najo]

Two issues really...

We shouldn't be confusing the two seperate issues here:

1) The money given to help ENworld was a gift. There is no need for accountability.

but...

2) ENworld should pay for itself and at least be able to provide wages for those who put in full time work on it.

I personally think the answer is to make it an automated feature to be an ENworld sponsor so we can pay our annual dues easily and get all of the extra features, maybe add some additonal features for paying members as well.

Just my 2 cents.

Nate

 

[Teflon Billy]

I had a big response to this all typed out responding to reapersaurus, but thought the better of it.

The post I had quoted was so rife with hyperbole...

...It is VERY distressing to once again see Morrus being placed on a pedastal like a saint that can do no wrong, and that fair questions are being shouted down, on the disgusting facade of "board harmony", or close to that platitude. ...

...Cheap ennobling rhetoric...

...Courage?
Yes, courage - it is not easy to stand up to the very vocal majority that does not like opinions and questions being asked that they don't like...

...And gross misunderstandings of the concepts of general NEED and personal WANT...

...There are some serious questions here that NEED to be asked, and while I think it's wonderful that many of the members of this board are generous to a fault, I feel that it is high time that Morrus stopped being so reserved and secretive and was more forthcoming about where the money comes from, and where it goes to...

...That the post was ballooning into one that, If I saw it, I wouldn't have struggled through

The one bit I will add before I hit the sack is a comment on the following...

...For me personally, I have asked him repeatedly to share information thru the years, and unfortunately have not been overly happy with the results...

If I asked once and didn't get the results I was seeking, I would've assumed that the owner of this private site didn't feel his personal financial information was any of my business.

If I asked "repeatedly" with the same results, it would've become easier to piece this little mystery together with each failed attempt.

But f I still didn't understand, maybe I would when it was explained to me in the passive voice on a message board.

 

[barsoomcore]

As far as I can see, there is no upside to what people are suggesting about this.

I think you ought to be specific as to which people you're talking about. A number of people have asked for quite different things. You seem to be addressing the idea of "accountability" -- which isn't the same as "visibility". If you see what I mean.

Honestly, people, what does Morrus posting an itemized list of expenditures do?

Not sure that anyone has asked for Morrus to do that. But I agree that it would serve little purpose.

 

[Alzrius]

I think you ought to be specific as to which people you're talking about. A number of people have asked for quite different things. You seem to be addressing the idea of "accountability" -- which isn't the same as "visibility". If you see what I mean.

My lack of specificity in my opening statement can't be too bad, since you seem to understand what I'm trying to say.

That said, what people have been discussing is the idea that Morrus should let them know, either ahead of time or after the fact, how he's spending the money on this site. I referred to that as "accountability", but perhaps "visibility" is a better word. Either way, it's what I and others are talking about in this thread.

Not sure that anyone has asked for Morrus to do that. But I agree that it would serve little purpose.

It seems to be, IMO, what the pro-accountability people want. They want to know how the money the site has earned this last day will be spent. That can be summed up as a list of things it has been/will be spent on.

 

[mistergone]

I may be stating the obvious here, or missing the mark completely, but I think what is bothering some people is this:

We don't want to see, some time in the future, a notice like we got yesterday (or the day before yesterday, depending on your time zone), which basically said.

"Uh, hey guys, by the way, this whole huge community that everyone loves and participates in every day? Yeah... it's coming down tomorrow. See, it's been in dire straights for the last few months or so, and well, we're all pooched. So, see you around, hopefully, maybe, eventually..."

That was a shock. A huge shock. But then everyone (well, almost everyone) rallied and pulled together and saved the day. Hoo-rah. That's good. But a lot of us (all of us) would have really liked to know that this was happening, this big sudden closing. It could have been prevented. Sure, no one can say for certain it could have been prevented... well, actually, we can, can't we? Because obviously it was saved at the 11th hour. No reason to think it wouldn't have been saved however many months ago.

So, I think that it's the suddeness, the silence, the not-knowing, that hits people hard. Maybe now they're worried "Well, if we didn't know about that until the last minute, what else won't we know about until the last minute?"

Sure, it's a privately owned site, and free to all. So no, no one is "accountable". No one has a say in what way any money is spent or really, in however the site is developed, except for the man who owns it. Ideally, the users have some say, in development and content, because they make up the community and their participation makes the site what it is. The only thing I think everyone can agree on is that they want to see the site keep running.

That's all my opinion, though. I could be mistaken. I really have a lot of mixed feelings on this whole drama, but they are thoughts best kept to myself. I like having ENWorld around, that's really all I have to say.

 

[Steverooo]

You'll all probably be interested to hear that some of the money has already been used. Cyberstreet has already been paid $2000, and all ENnies costs from earlier this year have now been repaid to the various people who were owed. That's all debt cleared, which was my first priority.

...and all spent JUST LIKE YOU TYPED YOU WOULD, and all spent just like it SHOULD have been! Good job, Morrus!

Now, 'bout that CURRENT server... Resale values aren't usually worth looking at... Do "we" even have a back-up server, in case the primary goes down? If not, can the current one be upgraded to act as a backup? (There's something the computer techs can help you with!)

And I still think 501(c)3 Not-for-Profit status in the US is a good idea...

 

[masterofmonks]

Even though I do not visit EN World often, and even more rarely post, I have this to say. I feel that this site performs a vital service to the community, without this site there would be many people that don't have anyone to discuss ideas about games, experiences, or just bounce ideas off of. I feel that it was a wonderful thing that everyone pulled together and bailed the site out of dire straights. But here is the other side of the coin, I would also not like to see the site get that close to failing again. Yes I belive that Morrus needs a business plan, yes I belive that the site is a full time job, yes I belive that he is accountable for the money. I also belive that *we* are not the ones to ask those questions. The community did *give* the money, that means that we should not act like the IRS in this situation. However it does fall on Morrus's shoulders to see to it that the site does not fall into debt again, doesn't mean that we should nitpick him to death about it. The most that we can do is to offer him suggestions when he asks, to support him in his decisions *even* if we may feel that they are the wrong ones, the most that we can do is to say "you know Morrus i don't think that will work all that well". Remember because you donated money doesn't make you the Co-Owner of the site, it doesn't make you an admin, it doesn't give you special privleges. What it does do is to say that you belive in the site, that you belive in what the site does. Nothing more. So again yes there should be a business plan but it is not our right to Press Morrus about it, only offer suggestions when he asks us. I felt it would be good to cover poth sides of this question in a single post, I thank all of you for taking your time to read this.

 

[DaveMage]

I see EN World as a very fun place to visit.

I viewed my contribution kind of like a ticket to a show. I pay my money, I get to enjoy the community (which I know is a good one), but I don't really care to know what goes on behind the scenes.

If I ever felt that the product (E.N. World) declined to the point of having far less value, I would not contribute the next time, and that will be that -- just like with any form of entertainment that no longer interests me.

I mean, really, the money I contributed was a pittance in the grand scheme of my financial life.

There's certainly nothing wrong with asking to know how the site is run, but if you don't like the answer, or lack thereof, then I believe you should either accept it and stick around, or depart. No sense in getting upset over it since the only one who really suffers in that instance is you (and those you choose to share your anger with - no fun in that!).

HOWEVER, a potential advantage of sharing how the site is run may allow others to offer helpful suggestions which could enhance the site even more.

 

[Guillaume]

My wife and I (Julie on these boards) gave 50$ yesterday. This amount is by no means nothing to our student budget. However, it was given because we use the site almost daily. I run a PbP here. ENWorld is a constant source of information about D&D and d20 in general.

That being said, the money was given out of genereosity. This being the internet, did we expect anything in return ? Not exactly, the only thing we expected was that the site would stay open for a few more days. The choice of the word days is not made innocently. I truely expected the site to be closed down and me having to find a new home form my PbP. The money we sent in was to stave of that search. It was also a payment of sorts for all the past use, a payment after the fact if you will.

Is there any expectations from Morrus attached ? Not really. I think that a website like this one, that is run on a desire to provide a place for a wonderful community and done so out of the goodness of the heart should be recognised as such. Accounting and business planning, although essential and good for ensuring continuity, are in the perogative of the owner not the user. As was said earlier, when you buy a ticket to a theater, you can expect service, a movie, or a show. You have no say in the way the book are kept, the money is spent, or the quality of the show you watch. If something displeases you, you may inform the apporpriate person, you may decide never to return, you may even decide to buy your entretainment from a competing theater. But in no way are you entitle to any of the management decisions.

What has happened in the past two days is wonderful. We, as a community, aggreed to reimburse the debts of a «lonely guy in his basement» because he provided us with the medium which allowed the community to exist. Granted more money than need was given, but we can only trust that Morrus will do the best he can with it. If he decides to publish a «business plan» or publish an account of the money, more power to him. However, it certainly will not be because my wife and I asked for it, but because he wanted to do it.

See you all around,