Accountability

[Umbran]

That was a shock. A huge shock. But then everyone (well, almost everyone) rallied and pulled together and saved the day. Hoo-rah. That's good. But a lot of us (all of us) would have really liked to know that this was happening, this big sudden closing. It could have been prevented. Sure, no one can say for certain it could have been prevented... well, actually, we can, can't we? Because obviously it was saved at the 11th hour. No reason to think it wouldn't have been saved however many months ago.

Actually, I think the fact that this happened shows that it might not have been saved if it wasn't 11th hour. There's been a way to donate to the site all along, and people weren't using it enough.

Humans are motivated by extremity. After a major disaster, blood donations skyrocket. But without that disaster, the Red Cross generally operates on a shoestring. Catastrophe will draw folks out of the woodwork in ways that lesser concern simply won't.

I can see a darned good reason to avoid budgetary visibility around here. Like it or not, we have a bunch of brash, second-guessing know-it-alls here, people who can't seem to give advice instead of making demands. Dealing with them would be a headache I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. If Morrus says he's gonna buy a new server, or new software, or choose a particular service provider, he'll get a dozen people griping about his specific choices, because obviously anyone who isn't an idiot would choose their particular favorite. But the particular favorites will all be different. How does anyone win there?

 

[EricNoah]

Folks, a reminder: I think this is now my third warning about personal attacks. Please refrain from calling others out, etc. There's no call for that. Everyone wants the best for EN World and even though we may have different opinions on how to achieve that, it doesn't make those you disagree with your enemy.

 

[Dimwhit]

Originally Posted by EricNoah
Please refrain from calling others out, etc.

That's it, Eric. I'm calling you out. After school, in the tanbark area!

You all had a tanbark area at your school, right?

(I'd worry about hijacking this thread, but I think it's time for it to die anyway...)

 

[herald]

Remain calm.... Breath...

Beyond all things I hate someone who donates and then thinks they are entitled. This site, this endevour, this community, costs money. Money to this end is appreciated. Strings attached are not.

I won't say I wasn't fustrated when I learned that Russ had let himself get $1600 behind in the bills. Having been in similar circumstances, let me say that these things never happen intentionally and they tend to snowball. But demanding that some form of accounting be set up to deal with this problem is rude and lacking in tact.

There does need to be accounting on this - but not because Russ can't be trusted as you - ahem - gentlemen have implied. Rather, when money changes hands, governments want a cut. jbrowning has already pointed this out and apparently he has a relative who is a qualified professional in these matters.

I have recommended to Russ directly that he should set ENWorld up seperate from himself - not because I don't trust him but because should ENWorld go belly up for any reason I don't want Russ' personal finances and credit to be dragged into it. He has worked too hard for this.

If Russ wishes to "open the books" or involve others in making budget decisions, I think it would be a wonderful idea. But I don't think he should pressured to do this at the point of a bayonet.

Now, I have more to say on this matter, but it isn't Granny safe.

WOW, have you taken things out of context! No one is threating anyone.

 

[Michael Morris]

WOW, have you taken things out of context! No one is threating anyone.

Two paragraphs were editted out by Eric and the rest of the message is out of context. I am specifically addressing two individuals who, in my opinion, are a constant thorn in the community's side. How the mods abstain from banning them both eludes me. I won't say anything more on the subject.

 

[herald]

Two paragraphs were editted out by Eric and the rest of the message is out of context. I am specifically addressing two individuals who, in my opinion, are a constant thorn in the community's side. How the mods abstain from banning them both eludes me. I won't say anything more on the subject.

Point taken. No harm, no foul.

 

[2d6]

I take alot from this site and contribute a small amount of personal experience and an occastional humorous (or not) comment. When Morrus said the lights were gonna go out I was amazed at how people openned thier pockets to help out. Nobody really asked, and I don't think anybody expected much at first.

Well now that the money has been raised, it's kinda in poor taste to start questioning how it's to be used. I think it's fair to ask that Morrus pay up his ENworld bills (and he has), and it would probably be a good idea to secure comparable hosting for the site for a year ( I think that's what most people expect). Beyond that it's up too him what he does with the money. There was a time to inquire about how the money was going to be used and that was before you hit submit. Now that it's done, it seems kinda sad to question his integraty, you trusted him enough to send him money, now let him be a good steward and do what's best for the site.

I'm certain that he is fully aware of the expertise of many of the members here and if anything has shown that people are willing to help him out, it was the actions of those over the past couple of days.

As far as I'm concerned I want the site to stay the same. Let Morrus tell us when the lights are about to got out and I imagine that those who value the site will donate again.

In the end, I'm for giving Morrus a little breathing room, and some time to decide how he wants to proceed.

 

[Vocenoctum]

There does need to be accounting on this - but not because Russ can't be trusted as you - ahem - gentlemen have implied. Rather, when money changes hands, governments want a cut. jbrowning has already pointed this out and apparently he has a relative who is a qualified professional in these matters.

I agree, but I think you're really overstating. (Keeping in mind any edits I can't see.
I don't hang at Dumpshock anymore, because though I love Shadowrun, it's too cliqueish. It's run like the admin are nobility, and it's tiring.

I have nothing against Morrus, but I really hate seeing people that ask for a sign that it won't reach the eleventh hour again, get flamed and their ethics and generosity called into question.

A lot of these people donated good amounts of money, it does no good for the community they supported to attack them when they question the leadership.

If Russ wishes to "open the books" or involve others in making budget decisions, I think it would be a wonderful idea. But I don't think he should pressured to do this at the point of a bayonet.

Now, I have more to say on this matter, but it isn't Granny safe.

To continue, I think you folks are a little overzealous in your defense of Morrus. For starters, he doesn't really need it.
There is no Bayonet. There can't be.
The most they can do is not donate anymore. They can't storm the building and sieze the servers. There's no reason for UnGrannyLike behavior because there's nothing to counter, IMO.

A simple "we trust Morrus, you should too." Is good enough counter for most, the strongest words really should be "if you can't trust, then don't donate, and perhaps this is the wrong site for you."

But asking for information on what the future holds shouldn't really solicitate attacks.

This isn't personally directed to Michael Morris specifically, it's just that I've seen too many forums get so cliqueish that they're not worth going to. This site is more heavily moderated than others, but it hasn't been bad enough to shut people out before. I hope it doesn't go that way.

 

[mistergone]

Actually, I think the fact that this happened shows that it might not have been saved if it wasn't 11th hour. There's been a way to donate to the site all along, and people weren't using it enough.

All I was saying is if people had been given a head's up that the site was in financial straights, I am almost positive they would have gladly given the money needed to bail it out. I mean, they paid his way to Origins (or GenCon)! He's a rock-star. He could at this point say "Hey all, I'd really fancy a new car." and there's a good chance people would send in money to buy ol' Morrie a new ride.




edit: tags, close the tags!

 

[jdavis]

If that's the case, than a discussion about the dollars and cents of the site would seem to be prudent.
Since unless the $ is handled well, that link might not work in the future.

a discussion about how the community can help yes, a discussion about how to spend somebody else's money no don't need that.

So if EN World needs a Industrial Hygienist or a Occupational Safety Engineer they may feel free to contact me other than that I did what I could to help, I gave some cash. I have no say in how the money is spent, it's not my money and it's not my site. Furthermore I in no way want Morrus's job, I am in no way qualified for it, heck I don't even want to know how he does it, I'm just happy that he does. If he works black magic or contacts the Russian mafia or hires Jerry Louis to do a telethon it's not my concern, just as long as I hit the link and the site comes up I will be happy.

There is no accountability here because there was no accountability built in before the money was given, it's now his money to do with as he sees fit. You want visibility well I've seen half a dozen post telling everyone what is going on here, you already have that and had it before this thread was even started. So isn't this now a moot point? Don't we all have less important D&D related post to be making?

Serious though you ever need a fume hood designed or some ergonomic factory tools or even a confined space entry program give me a call.