Accountability

[PA]

Now things are different. I did not expect to raise so much money and so, naturally, I hadn't planned in advance on doing so; I'm just taken aback by this sudden turnaround in events. As yet, there is no specific plan for the money because I want to take the time to make sure I use it as best possible. Right now I don't know what that is, but I'm confident that, given the breathing space we have now that Cyberstreet has been paid $2000, there is time to think about it, not rush any decisions, get advice etc., and come up with something good. But it ain't gonna happen quickly, and it ain't gonna be rushed!

Amen!

 

[Dimwhit]

Actually, it is. We gave money to save ENworld, so we can expect the money to be used for that purpose.

Not to start an argument or anything...but I didn't give money to ENWorld. I gave money to Morrus.

Personally, I hope he takes the wife (he's married, right?) out for a nice weekend with a few hundred dollars. He probably won't, but I hope he does.

 

[Eosin the Red]

/scratches head stupified?


I did want to call Eric out. How could I resist?

Morrus and co have run ENworld for several years now, I gave cause I like what they have done and wish them to continue. That takes money. Here have some. Do what you been doing and anything else that needs doing in your opinion.

 

[PA]

Not to start an argument or anything...but I didn't give money to ENWorld. I gave money to Morrus.

Personally, here is what I paid for:

EN_World_Support
Code: EN_World
Price: 20.00
Quantity: 1
Subtotal: 20.00

 

[Darrin Drader]

Dang PA, I haven't seen you this active on these boards since Gary Gygax was making his daily visits.

So a few years ago my wife had a job where she was making bank and I wasn't doing too bad myself. On two separate occasions we paid out over $1,000 to bail out people we cared for. In one case things ended well enough. This person was a friend of my wife's and she ended up pulling her life together. In the other case, things didn't end up so well. In neither case did we put conditions on the money we were using, nor did we call it a loan or demand that we get it back. We spent it to help people that we cared about. I don't see this as being a whole lot different, except that rather than personally spending a grand or two, it was only $50 out of my pocket. Frankly, I can think of worse ways to spend that amount of money, and I don't feel bad doing it, even if it is just to pay Morrus back for the good times I've already had here on someone else's dime.

I think Morrus's stated plan is sound, and I look forward to seeing what comes of it. Hopefully this bail out will be one of the success stories rather than one of the failures.

 

[jdavis]

I didn't give money to Morrus for his little Christmas; I gave money to keep ENworld alive--and, if I must repeat it again: yes, I do trust Morrus to use it for that purpose; my problem is not at all with Morrus but with people who say that we have no say about the money we gave: we do. It was not a gift, it was an answer to fundraising. We have no say about the means but we do have about the purpose.

Here's the thing actually you don't have any say, see if he decides to sit on the money and kill the site anyway that's all there is to it, he isn't legally beholden to us for anything at all, this wasn't a official fund raising drive, it wasn't a official charity, it was just like handing $50 bucks to a stranger because they asked for it. He said he is saving the site, he has already sent the money to save the site, the site is saved, it's already been done, why is this thread still going? Stop splitting hairs here, we get no say at all and it doesn't matter anyway because he's already done it, the website is saved, the money is already sent, it's over, kaput, done for, finished............

This isn't a democracy, it's his website to run. He's telling us what is being done so there is the visibility that people were wanting, why is this thing still going, can we just let this one go now, it's all a moot point the website is saved and he's not jumping to any rash decisions on the rest. I'm sure he will let us know when a final decision is made. That's it folks it's all said and done here will somebody drop the curtain on this one?

 

[reapersaurus]

This isn't a democracy, it's his website to run.

That's it folks it's all said and done here will somebody drop the curtain on this one?

Wow, do you have a completely different picture of this website than I do.
I don't view this website as Morrus little lordship.
I view Morrus as a CUSTODIAN of ENWorld.
The current person in charge. Eric was in charge earlier, and maybe someone else will be in charge in the future.
Back when this was Eric's site, perhaps a strong case could be made for it being 'his' site, and in complete control.

But this site has evolved beyond just being Eric's little (successful) project.

As has been proven here, this site is a Community.
A Community which could survive even if Morrus decided to drop it on it's butt (which I repeat, is not what I believe Morrus has any intention of doing). I believe ENWorld could move somewhere else and keep going if that unthinkable happened, as was glimpsed at by some offers even in the brief, rushed hours after The Announcement.

As I stated before (and I think was missed by some people), I believe the Custodian of ENWorld should WANT to be open and harbor group discussion.
Our requests for more openness and communication about the financial and technical particulars of the website are NOT tied in with Morrus being given money - they are tied in with a desire for the leadership to be more open to group discussion. This group discussion would have a serious goal: the betterment of ENWorld.
There are numorous studies which statistically prove that a group's decisions (made with the input of many people) are BETTER than a single person's decisions. I don't see why there are people not 'getting' this basic approach.

Along these lines, it is certainly NOT "all said and done here" and I don't appreciate you trying to put the kibosh on people expressing their concerns about ENWorld's future.
It is not for you, or any other non-mod, to tell the Community when it is appropriate to stop discussion.
As long as the discussion does not violate board policy, closing threads that are still going is not a healthy thing for a Community (and I believe that the Mods strongly take this same approach, from what I've read).
I have not seen any personal attacks or threats in this thread which discusses these things, other than people who believe that none of this should be discussed.

 

[reapersaurus]

I thought we were collecting a stipend to compensate Morrus for his last two years of (more than) full-time devotion to the site and just hoping he might throw some of it back into keeping it going longer.

wow, I'd like to talk about this point.

I was under the understanding that for quite some time, Morrus had been "living off of Enworld". I never understood what that meant exactly, since it wasn't explained, but in that thread where he discussed stepping down from "full-time" Admin duties (which I'd LOVE to find again - 2nd request for a Search....), I thought he said that he had been taking money from the site to live off of.
And that as of that thread, he was going to be stopping that, and find a full-time job, and other people would have to do his fulltime admin duties.
It seemed to me that Piratecat immediately stepped forward, and was performing some of those duties, and darn well from what I saw.

I haven't yet been able to find out what the impact of him not performing those "fulltime admin duties" are.

I don't know what Morrus does for this site, in fact.
The only unique duty that I'm aware of is the news page, but aren't those newsbits sent in from MANY people and companies? I'd guess he'd just collate them, decide which to post, and then post them?

It's scary to me to get the impression that simply asking these basic, simple, straightforward, non-personal, non-attacking questions is treading on dangerous ground here.
Doesn't that strike anyone else as odd?
It seems to not be healthy to not feel comfortable asking these types of questions...

 

[herald]

wow, I'd like to talk about this point.

I was under the understanding that for quite some time, Morrus had been "living off of Enworld". I never understood what that meant exactly, since it wasn't explained, but in that thread where he discussed stepping down from "full-time" Admin duties (which I'd LOVE to find again - 2nd request for a Search....), I thought he said that he had been taking money from the site to live off of.
And that as of that thread, he was going to be stopping that, and find a full-time job, and other people would have to do his fulltime admin duties.
It seemed to me that Piratecat immediately stepped forward, and was performing some of those duties, and darn well from what I saw.

I haven't yet been able to find out what the impact of him not performing those "fulltime admin duties" are.

I don't know what Morrus does for this site, in fact.
The only unique duty that I'm aware of is the news page, but aren't those newsbits sent in from MANY people and companies? I'd guess he'd just collate them, decide which to post, and then post them?

It's scary to me to get the impression that simply asking these basic, simple, straightforward, non-personal, non-attacking questions is treading on dangerous ground here.
Doesn't that strike anyone else as odd?
It seems to not be healthy to not feel comfortable asking these types of questions...

Here, here!

What I find amusing is that the some of the people who claim that they don't care about how the finaces of this web site keep stepping in and try and block anyone from answering questions. If you honestly don't care how Morrus pays for our community, fine, but let the rest of us alone. We're not here with torches and pitchforks, were here with checkbooks and paypal accounts.

Getting in to debt takes a hard, hard toll on people. You add support of a organization like Enworld on top of that and it might make it much worse. Just opening up the line of communication between the users and Morrus might help avoid this issue in the future.

Morrus took Eric Noah's site and spun it into something spectacular. And he payed a price for it. Just because we sent money to get Enworld back on his feet again doesn't mean that we should all just stop being concerned about Enworld and not put a thought into how tomorrow will turn out. I want to know that I will be able to access the hosted sites, messageboards and news. I also want to know when it will be time to help should that time come again.

 

[Morrus]

wow, I'd like to talk about this point.

I was under the understanding that for quite some time, Morrus had been "living off of Enworld".

Then your understanding was completely wrong.

Morrus would have liked to live off the site (how cool would that be?), but unfortunately Morrus was instead paying for the site out of his own personal money, out of credit cards, and loans from his ever-despairing girlfriend. Morrus eventually realised he couldn't afford to keep doing this, and decided to look for a full-time job, as EN World evidently wasn't going to pay for itself, and that way Morrus could afford to continue paying for it, still out of his own pocket. Not to be rude, but all that meant that you have about as much "right" to anything as I have to your home or your car, which you no doubt pay for out of your own pocket.

Reapersaurus, you know I don't mind questions. But I can't abide rude people, and I'm afraid that you are one of them. That's why I don't rush to explain things in minute detail to you, and why I'm willing to share information with other people. If you check back on the thread where you asked about 40 questions in one past, you'll notice that I eventually answered them when I had the time. You never replied after that.

As for the "custodianship" idea - your history is wrong. EN World and Eric Noah's site were two totally different entities, and existed at the same time. When Eric stepped down, I decided to take over the role he had adopted (I recall that several sites did the same thing, claiming to be the "successor" to Eric's site at the time). I owned EN World before Eric stepped down, and I own it now, your opinion notwithstanding.

Man, reapersaurus, you really know how to spoil a party. You get this website for free - why can't you just enjoy it? I've never asked you for anything, and, guess what, I never will.

And finally - will you please stop asking for information which makes it sound like I'm hiding it. Read the bloody announcement on every forum, and read my comments in this thread. You have ALL the information that there is. There is no more information to give you. When there is more information to tell, I will share it, as very, very plainly stated repeatedly.

Damn, I was in such a good mood yesterday. Why did I know it would be you to spoil it? I've had enough of your rude demands, and I've had enough of your implied insults ("lordship", indeed). Please either learn some manners or go away.

To everyone else

You'll find the information you seek both in my replies in this thread, and in the announcement at the top of each forum. When there is more information, you will find that there too. I plan to be open about what happens with the money, and I plan to talk to a whole bunch of people (Clark Peterson has kindly offered to help with a long-term plan) before I do anything. Thanks!